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I am new to this... can this actually work

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Telcontar, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. Telcontar

    Telcontar Well-Known Member

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    So, back in the day, I tried to get into infinity... and then got a second child and everything went on hold for a while. I tried a couple of things and settled for JSA. I have the box, a shikami and the bow ninja from red veil. The following is the list I came up with. Is this playable in the sense of "can I walk into a gamestore and play an ITS mission against someone without being totally outclassed from the start", not in the "does this win tournaments" sense?
    Is JSA suitable for a beginner in the first place? Many forum posts seem to suggest it is not.

    Kuroshi and smoke
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    KUROSHI RIDER Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 33)
    KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    RYŪKEN (CH: Limited Camouflage) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    DAIYŌKAI Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 49)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    SAITO TOGAN Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    SHIKAMI Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 47)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)

    3 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  2. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I’d at the very least have the warcor swap places with the ninja or drop him and upgrade another unit. (Proxies are fine if you have to). But otherwise yeah, I’d ring it into a store and get playing!
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Which ITS mission you're playing will matter a great deal in what models are most valuable, whether you will want lots of specialists or lots of killers.

    I would drop the WarCor to get your army down to a single combat group, which will prevent someone from stealing 2 orders from you in your first turn. After dropping the WarCor, that would have you starting at 7 Regular orders on the table and 1 Irregular (plus the two Impetuous orders on the bikes), since Saito and the Ninja are almost certainly going to be in Hidden Deployment. You have 4 specialists in the list (Keisotsu FO, Shikami, Ninja hacker, and Kempeitai CoC), so it should work OK for pushing buttons.

    Japanese Secessionist Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    KUROSHI RIDER Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 33)
    KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    RYŪKEN (CH: Limited Camouflage) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    DAIYŌKAI Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 49)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    SAITO TOGAN Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    SHIKAMI Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 47)
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)

    3 SWC | 296 Points

    Open in Infinity Army



    JSA can be a tough army to start playing the game with, since you need to be very aggressive with your models to use them to best effect, which means you're likely getting them shot at a lot. I strongly recommend reading @Dude 's JSA tactica. While some of the fireteam options have changed since he wrote it, the general advice for each unit is still solid.


    Also, don't feel bad about proxying models or profiles you don't have! You bought the JSA Army Pack, so you should have the Kaizoku Spec-Op model to use as a dedicated proxy for anything you don't have.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    As noted above, drop the Warcor and move the ninja to group 1. To help with order efficiency (it's going to be the major challenge for your list), consider deploying the Ninja or Saito in regular camo marker state to disguise it as one of your Ryuken's mines, while still getting the order for the rest of your pool.

    JSA is definitely not a suitable beginner faction, but don't let that dissuade you. If you like the models and the playstyle, just stick with it. Infinity is a hard game, and you're going to lose a lot before you start winning regardless of what faction you start with. Just focus on learning from your mistakes as you go.
     
    csjarrat and Abrilete like this.
  5. GrayWolf34b

    GrayWolf34b New Member

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    I have used this list more or less. If you go first you have a chance. You go second it is up hill battle.
     
  6. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    JSA isn't the army that I'd recommend to a newcomer but if you like them a lot, then go ahead.
    Infinity rewards a lot the bagagge of the player so if you become good with them, you can make them work no problem.
    This faction have some nice stuff: Oniwabans and Shinobu are among the best alpha strikers of this game, you have smoke + MSV2 combo, Ryukens 9 (ODD version) are very very good, CC skills to stop a train, a slightly squishy but very independent and survivable TAG, plus the samurai theme is very cool. But JSA isn't in the best spot right now.

    I'd start with one of the big factions or one of their sectorials as an strategic choice; these are going to get more attention and releases than an isolated NA2 sectorial over time. And you can change between Vanilla, a sectorial or a NA2 army with a few extra purchases.

    JSA on the other hand is getting old really fast with the last changes to the game; and even when that is happening, CB had recently removed the operative specialist saito because fluff reasons. So JSA is probably going to receive less attention than a big faction and won't get fixed until it become unplayable. And JSA is only expandable with purchases to Ikari (other NA2)... or maybe Yu Jing if you favor a REM and Ninja heavy style but that's a loong shot.

    JSA as a pet second faction is nice to have, but I won't pick it as my main faction. However if you plan to play only casual and really like the faction go ahead, the models are pretty cool.
     
  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    About your list... I see that list a bit all over the place to be honest...

    Feedback:
    As a general advice, stay away from Kuroshi until you have more experience; the model is expensive, squishy and tricky to use.
    If you want to use a Shikami, I'd recommend you to include 2; so you can bring 2 to the midfield thanks to duo (which minimice the risk of losing the Shikami after expending a lot of orders advancing him). Same applies to the Daiyokai, the link options are recommended.
    You lack defense... more mines, linked FO/ML (keisotsus/Tankos) and/or a total reaction REM...
    A secondary CG with only 1 model will punish you hard when going first, you will have 6 regular orders the first turn, that's not good.
    You have no links (maybe a core of 2 models...)
    The HRL ryuken profile isn't the best one; that CAMO marker in your DZ is very clear what it is and without any other visual modifier plus BS 12, he will have a hard time winning FtF rolls.
    3 unexpended SWC of cool toys missing.

    Some general advices:
    Always include defense.
    If you use more than 1 CG, include more than 3 models in that secondary group.
    JSA is a sectorial so take advantage of one of the biggest sectorial advantages: fireteams. Always try to include at least 1 Core, if possible a Core and a Haris. Remember that you can reinforce the links in the middle of the game, taking extra keisotsus to reform the core in turn 2 or 3 is a common practice in JSA.
    If you want to use the HIs use the links to advance them as a unit (DoTanko links, Shikami duo, Daiyokai Haris) and include support for them (KHD to kill the enemy hackers, and some mid field presence to clear the path for them); if you can fit them a HD for Fairy Dust and an engineer. Be very aware of Jammers and enemy E/M weapons and do your best to avoid being caught by them.
    Karakukis are like miniTAGs after the TI rework, try them; they are amazing. Try to include the Haris, to get the much needed +1 B and to advance a Domaru toward the midfield.
    Try to use all/most of your SWC (5 or 5.5 is ok, 4 or less isn't ideal)

    If you want smoke and Ninjas, these are 2 of my favourite lists around that mechanic:

    Ninjas and Smoke
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    SHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 47)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 25)
    KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KEISOTSU Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    SAITO TOGAN Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This list is all about the MSV2+Smoke combo and the Ninjas alpha strike (Saito is supposed to wait until turn 2, get transfered to CG 1 and then smoke and kill something. It's a bit weak on the defensive side too so getting the first turn and make good use of Shinobu is very important.

    Ninjas and Smoke 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    SAITO TOGAN Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    OYAMA Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28)
    KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 25)
    YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Same idea than before but it's a more stable list; it has more defense and mid field control with the 2 Ryukens 9; you can push with oyama the last turns, the flash pulse make the keisotsus decent for their price in ARO. The Lt is obvious but not easy to pick off.

    HF!
     
    #7 Ogid, Jul 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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