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How would you fix [x]? Week 10: Al Fasid

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Knauf, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    He's a Nourkias alright.

    I do think that as long as the faction they're in isn't overly saturated with the abilities, TacAware and NCO both have the power to make a unit viable and valuable without the potential to make hard-breaks on game balance as can certain other ability combinations *coughkamau*.
     
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  2. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Any suggestions for the next unit?
     
  3. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Chaksa Longarms.
     
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  4. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Hassassin Ayyar.
     
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  5. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Will save that one for next week – one of my favourites.

    Yeah, with new sculpts on the horizon, that is a good call.

    Longarms are in a weird spot in SC. They seem to be designed as long range support, but cannot join triads nor the brawler core. They can form their own Haris, however, with Aelis as the only Wildcard to mix in. But even then, they are fairly bare bones BS 12 without any MODs to complement their shooting, except for the [+1 dam]. Slapping on additional MODs is always an option, but I'd like a less ham fisted approach here, by seperating the profiles into two groups:

    Group 1 (ML and Autocannon) would be compatible with Brawler core, so you can have that same old ML ARO peeking out, with the added benefit of some additional damage. With no visual MOD and ARM 3, they are sort of a sitting duck, though. Total Reaction could be an option to sweeten the deal somewhat for the ML profile and solidify it as an ARO piece.

    The Autocannon looks more interesting in that context, even if it shares effective range bands with the Brawler HRL, but there would still be a trade-off between template, ammo type and point cost here. In the active turn, it has the potential to really hurt things at Dam 16 AP+EXP.

    This approach would also help make the Brawler Core link more attractive in general.


    Group 2 (MK12 and Combi Rifle) expands on the Haris concept.
    Aelis Keesan seems to be an interesting toolbox specialist, but an additional Wildcard would be nice to have. Chaksa Auxiliars could be an option here. They share a common theme with the Longarms and have the dirt cheap 10 point HFT FTO profile that works nicely as a filler. They can also fill up those mines on the Mk12 Longarms and add another Sensor to your haris.
    Here's another crazy idea: Give the MK12/Combi Rifle profiles Strategic Deployment, so this haris can actually start upfield, where their weapons can shine.

    Finally, to add a bit more flavour, I'd give all of them Triangulated Fire. Yes, BS 9 is not a great base for it, but if you factor in the +1 Burst fire team bonuses, you actually have a reasonable average chance of pulling it off, if you are willing to invest that additional set up and order:

    Combi Rifle/Mk12:
    B4 -> 1.8 hits -> decent odds up to 48", MK12 delivers DAM 16

    Autocannon:
    B3 -> 1.35 hits -> slightly worse odds up to 48", but with dangerous ammo

    Missile Launcher:
    B2 -> 0.9 hits -> pretty bad odds, but puts a template on anything visible on the table
     
    #25 Knauf, Feb 12, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Some love for them in vanilla Tohaa as well, please :3
     
  7. SpectralOwl

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    I think all the Chaksa Longarm needs is some fairly brutal cost-cutting measures. They already have a defined niche as the big guns of Spiral, but you can't afford to bring the Haris that lets them win FTF rolls thanks to the profile waste. Taking out Bioimmunity, dropping that ARM down to two and reducing CC to schmuck levels would leave them priced more like Brawlers, which would allow for easier inclusion in the list and make using the Pulzars for close-up trades more palatable.
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    CC 17 is already schmuck levels of CC as the average has increased. Bioimmunity isn't very costly, but the ARM value is probably the biggest post you can save points on if that's the goal (and it seems like that's very much it here) and after that the +1DAM. Dropping the ARM down a notch may be enough to level them with Brawlers.
    That said, it's a bit funny how Longarms is one of few Tohaa (adjacent) units with significantly higher ARM than BTS and simply flipping the ARM to BTS and allowing Bioimmunity to act like the cheat mechanism it's designed to be would probably yield the best results for the unit. Not quite how CB usually operates, though, reducing the cost to match the performance - they usually buff performance to match points it seems. It's possible that might leave room for something a bit more spicy like Sixth Sense and something minor.
     
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of FTO version of them that can join specific teams.
     
  10. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I think the unit needs a total rework, as the idea of a "mediocre heavy weapon platform" isn't a very interesting one to base a design off of.

    If you cut costs, you end up with a really dull "basic autocannon guy". A box ticker that unlocks a couple of heavy weapons that are pretty much unusable. Not a big fan of box-ticker profiles if we can avoid them. But even so, a cheaper Longarm is still more playable than the currently quite expensive one.

    If you make it linkable with random units in Spiral, its a little more interesting, but a trooper that only exists to be an autocannon in a brawler link might as well be a brawler autocannon. I feel that Longarms need their own identity outside of this. Also really dislike the idea of uplifted creatures linking with non-Tohaa.

    If you let it triad with Auxillar only its neat but pretty niche and still not really playable (BS12, 3-man link autocannon is still a BS 12 autocannon with no mods). That said, I'm kind of keen on perhaps the Pulzar one triad'ing with some cheerleaders as an extreme late game unit.

    Do they have any fluff? I know CB makes fluff for the rules rather than the other way around, but with Longarms I really feel like the profile is just lacking anything to be built around, and fluff would be a cool starting point.

    As is, my solution is nothing unique; cut costs (bioimmunity, CC, ARM, +1 DAM) for a minimum cost platform, then allow Chaksa Auxillars to join them in a Fireteam: Haris in Spiral. Getting some B5 Neuro Chaksa would be neat and having a pointman for a triad of sensors to move up the table with could also give them a role. To make them something I'd actively play I'd be looking for a specialist profile to go with that haris.

    In Tohaa, the cost cutting plus specialist on the non-SWC profiles would give that profile at least a role as a sort of crappy combat specialist. But I'm really pulling a role out of my ass for them here. There's no possibility of them performing a "heavy weapon" role without gratuitous power increasing, given they compete with the Sukuel.
     
  11. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    give six sense, kumotail wildcard
     
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  12. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    Ok, so how would you fix Aida Swanson?
     
  13. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Saved for next week, this week it's time for the Hassassin Ayyar as suggested by @QueensGambit

    I'd stick MOV 6-2, Veteran, Firewall [-3] and FD 8" on him and call it a day. Maybe also Viral/AP Ammo on his regular weapons, since a standard rifle and shock MMR are really outclassed these days. Maybe make his Panzerfaust and E/Mitter [+1B], so you can leverage that surprise shot with more than one die.

    This way, he could move more freely and efficiently through the midfield and complete objectives as intended.
     
    #33 Knauf, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
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  14. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Sixth sense and some useful addition to the link does seem like the best option.
     
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  15. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    A viral MMR would really make him unique! I can't think of any unit in the game with a burst 3+ weapon with a rangeband beyond 16" and DA ammo. So, yes please but it probably doesn't fit CB's design philosophy :-)

    It would be cool if he could have, like, viral MMR but only when using Surprise Attack. That would really make the surprise mean something, which it doesn't much right now. In the alternative, I do like your +1B on the pfaust and e/mitter, but it wouldn't be enough to make that profile worth taking. Maybe combine the two ideas by giving him a +1B Blitzen on the MMR profile. Opponent blissfully leaves a TAG out on ARO, not knowing that one of your innocent-looking models actually has a 2B Blizten with surprise -6...

    Speaking of innocent-looking, giving him FD+8 makes fluff sense, but makes his holomask even more useless than it already is. Not sure how to solve that one.
     
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  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    FD on a Heavy is extremely expensive, though, you've easily increased the cost by more than 5 points just with the FD8 and Tinbot, probably closer to 10. I don't quite know what role the Ayyar is meant to fill in neither HB nor Haqq. Might be more a case of it being in the wrong faction than actually being bad.
    I can see Hassassin benefit from a simpler designed Heavy that's using Holomask to conceal itself inside links much like the Hafza, but it really has to offer something the Asawira does not. If you squint the current Ayyar looks like it belongs in White Banner, but you'd have to dumb down the stats a bit first.
     
  17. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Edit: Nope, doesn't work.
     
    #37 Knauf, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No you can't:

    A Trooper in Holoecho State cannot be part of a Fireteam. If a member of a Fireteam activates Holoecho State, then it will automatically cease being part of the Fireteam.​
     
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  19. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    I think FD 8" or full blown infiltration would make him unique enough. For cost balance, I could see downgrading his armor from two wounds to 1 +NWI. Holoprojector is good at clearing deployables and having a specialist starting in the mid-field who can clear them would be useful.

    Or if they want him to excel at clearing out weak models, they could just give him Djabel's "spicy bullets." (BS attack: Continuous Damage).
     
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  20. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    Giving Ayyar a hmg Will make him a strong and interesting piece.
     
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