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How to control Yojimbo impetuous

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Ogid, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I've just discovered you can dismount Yojimbo to control his impetuous movement if you don't want him to charge toward his dead, nor expend an order cancelling the impetuous order.

    It seems the Impetuous rule take in count the number of orders it takes to reach the enemy model, so if the shorter path is going toward the bike + mount and drive toward the enemy, the model must do that. The advantage is: if the enemy is far away from you, you can dismount, step away from the bike and force him to run toward the bike (strategically parked in a safe place) instead of toward the enemy ARO pieces. Being able to keep him safe and use the order to smoke your MSV2 kepetai/Rui Shi.

    Doing it this way you can use his impetuous to force him to go towards his bike + throw smoke into the MSV2 models, quite handy to keep him safe in the turn 2 and 3 if you still need the smoke (in turn 1 he must deploy mounted tho); after that use his irregular order to get away from the bike.


    EDIT: It seems this isn't so clear after all, some midddle point rules could be these:
    • If the shorter path is the bike, take the bike
    • If the bike and on foot paths take the same turns, go on foot unless you can reach the bike without moving less than the max MOV value and backtrack.
    So, if the biker and the bike are in the same spot:
    • For a 8-6 bike with a 4-4 rider: 1-24 inches: Unmounted; 25-28 inches: Bike; 29-32 inches: Unmounted; 33+ inches: Bike
    There is a weird interval of 3 inches before the 33+ inches where the bike would be faster than on foot but as you can't meassure I guess we can ignore those.
    However if Yojimbo moved back 4 inches in the last turn: The last point (not taking in count the weird bike interval in the middle) reduces to 21 inches; if Yojimbo moved back 8 inches these are reduced to 17 inches

    How far the enemy must be to be able to use this trick? Taking in count the movement should be measured as Move-Move:
    • For a 8-6 bike with a 4-4 rider: 1-8 inches: Unmounted; 9-14 inches: Bike; 15-16 inches: Unmounted; 17+ inches: Bike
    Basically higher than 9 inches, but if the enemy is exactly between 14.1 and 16.0 (2 inches) then Yojimbo must go unmounted towards him... I think you can't meassure at this point so I'm not sure how that is handled tho.

    Check this thread to see the rules question and if there is any new info about it.
     
    #1 Ogid, Jul 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Dismount is not going to be a valid declaration during the Impetuous move. And especially not during his first impetuous move, which is the most dangerous one.

    Re: whether or not dismount will be valid later, I don't think the rules for Impetuous would require you to remount, as you would be moving in opposite direction of the nearest enemy model. In either case, I think the Impetuous rules need a rewrite to function if CB doesn't want to allow premeasuring in the game because right now they frequently require it, not just to determine the closest model but also to determine the nearest enemy model in terms of orders.
     
  3. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    The idea is not dismounting during the impetuous phase, but using his irregular order to do it. So during the next impetuous phase he will use the Mbike as an anchor to avoid the "run into an enemy LoF and die horribily" risk.

    Idea:
    • Turn 1: Must deploy mounted, just position him well or use an order to cancel his impetuous. During the turn, dismount him and run away from the bike, the bike must be in/near the path to the closest enemy but in total cover.
    • Turn 2: Yojimbo will run towards the bike if the enemy is far away (as the bike enable a quicker route to the enemy, which is a requisite for impetuous movement); the idea is using this to make him run toward total cover instead of toward a LoF, you can use smoke on the MSV2 models instead of to save his ass. During the turn, charge with him or move him again away to do the same in turn 3.
    • Turn 3: Again he won't suicide in his impetuous if the bike is well placed and we can use the impetuous order to set up smoke; during the turn mount and clean up with him.
    I also thought it wasn't possible, but ijw answered that was the intended mechanic; however the rules for that doesn't seem totally developed for bikes so we are still discussing how to use them. Check the link to the rules forum to see the whole discussion.
     
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  4. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    what if you have less than 4 inch to reach the bike ?
    huge rule bug there: you can mount during the order and you have to move 4 total inchs
     
  5. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    In either case, dismounting doesn't protect you during the most dangerous turn, turn 1. For turn one, your options are "deploy well" or cancel the order.
     
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  6. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    You can only mount in the first skill of an order, so either you must run past the mbike or you must stop in b2b with the bike. ijw said the shortest route has priority.
    However mounting the bike isn't into the conditions that allow those models to move less than his full movement:
    So either you break the shortest route rule or you break the must move full movement. It's not 100% clear yet.
    A way to fullfil the latter would be dismount and run exactly 4 inches away from the bike, so he can use the full movement AND get in b2b with the bike.
    Those rules aren't yet clarified for mbikers.

    I elaborated that a bit more here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/impetuous-bikers-shenanigans.34200/page-2#post-271379
    My guess would be this one, but it's not officialy confirmed:
    I guess a with the answer we have in this thread some middle point rules could be these:
    • If the shorter path is the bike, take the bike
    • If the bike and on foot paths take the same turns, go on foot unless you can reach the bike without moving less than the max MOV value and backtrack.
    So, if the biker and the bike are in the same spot:
    • For a 8-4 bike with a 4-4 rider: 1-32 inches: Unmounted; 33-37 inches: Bike; 38-40 inches: Unmounted; 41+ inches: Bike
    • For a 8-6 bike with a 4-4 rider: 1-24 inches: Unmounted; 25-28 inches: Bike; 29-32 inches: Unmounted; 33+ inches: Bike
    However if the biker have move back a 4 inches: The last point (not taking in count those weird bike inches in the middle) reduces to 29 and 21 inches for the 8-4 and 8-6 respectively; if the biker move back 8 inches these are reduced to 17 inches in both cases.

    Yep, but it's still quite handy for turn 2 and 3.
     
    #6 Ogid, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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