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How many side games can Infinity N4 survive?

Discussion in 'News' started by zapp, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I get you but eventually what's old can be new again. QK, MRRF, NCA, ISS, and even Tohaa can all make a come back at some point with some new/changed troops. Yes I know ISS is not officially dead, but it's dead anyway. Other than Adil, the last new figure specifically for ISS was the Hsien or Wu Ming years ago.
     
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  2. Kyle Katarn

    Kyle Katarn Well-Known Member

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    I'd actualy prefer CB to play their own game a little bit instead. Or at least to watch how it's played.
    After Bostria saying that vanillas aren't competitive, except fo Haqq, i find releases like monsterhunters disturbing.
     
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  3. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    I recently found this in my inbox:

    This whole video and diorama was inspired by a rulebook! Please CB, inspire us again :wink:
     
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  4. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    Remember when CB was pushing A! hard and statements like "we now play Aristeia! exclusively" were dropped on regular basis in the forums and during videos? I believe that is the reality we now find ourselves in. Corvus Belli does not play their main game. In my opinion they lost interest in time consuming complicated battles. Just as they got older, got kids, their energy dropped (I know, I am a father of a youngster myself) resulting in them leaning more into beer & chips games. I don't blame them, but it is sad to see no one stepping up and taking the mantle. We used to get real engagement and hype back in Flamestrike times. Now we get Beasts of War type, generic copy paste hype about all new releases plus detachment from meta reality. Vanilla not being competitive is pretty laughable TBH.
     
  5. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    That... that is one of those rare posts that can change how somebody sees the game entirely. I'm not quite so negative on CB, but man, this here connects a whole lot of dots.

    I thought maybe the shift to side-games was because Infinity isn't profitable. But alternatively, in addition to aging, perhaps they are a victim of their own success? Not many companies seem to be able to go big and not go to shit.
     
  6. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    It's pretty natural to be fair. Most people can't keep up constant enthusiasm for something. It ebbs and flows.

    The challenge is bringing in new excitement while maintaining quality, or balance or consistency.

    In fairness though, covid has a lot to answer for as people have probably had more pressing matters on their mind.
     
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  7. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    Oh no, Infinity is definitely profitable. It's just that in order to break through a glass ceiling (being fanbase size) Corvus Belli seeks a way to get to new customers. Speed-running through main-game releases might keep the game fresh, but it also bloats it exponentially and is tiresome for existing customer base. There's just so much funds a stale customer base can spend on metal toy soldiers.
    In my opinion CB's biggest problem is that outside of their customers base they just doesn't exist. Side games and especially Kickstarter releases are a means to get to that sweet, sweet board game fandom. And CB does what they should - trying to reach that promised land. And I hope they do achieve this. Everyone, including us, would benefit.

    Note: More often, rather than not, I might come across as negative towards Corvus Belli. This is because I tend to criticize Corvus Belli without holding back. I do my best to be fair and also praise them where it's deserved. I care for the game, because I am a gaming hobbyist, but also because my job depends on it. Just want to put it out there that I am not trying to be negative. Let's just say I'm in a healthy place between a fanboy and a hater, which results in a different perspective.
     
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  8. Muad'dib

    Muad'dib Well-Known Member

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    Is there any data or anecdote pointing to the board games actually drawing in new customers? My Infinity group is fairly insular, since I haven't been to a game store for general tournament in years, but I'd be surprised to hear that there is a fresh pool of customers backing Kickstarters without any prior Infinity exposure, given the shear number of board games available today.

    I see a fair number of people who play infinity that also back the Kickstarter campaigns, but I haven't heard of anyone picking up Infinity after playing one of the board games - which I feel is part of the argument for why CB keeps cramming the new board game profiles into Infinity.
     
  9. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    TAG Raid certainly isn't known about in the board game sphere (I'm pretty plugged into it and my wife is a board game influencer), nor have demo copies been sent to board game personalities (for comparison, GW sent a bunch of copies of their new starter sets for Age of Sigmar to board game people to try and get the word out and make some converts)... so while it feels like while TAG Raid could (or should) be an entry point into the hobby, it's also not exactly that and is being marketed in a pretty insular way. Doesn't make sense to me, really, because if CB wants to go the populist route and try and bring in new people, they're not really succeeding.

    My suggestion that TAG Raid could be partially aimed at boardgamers was met with skepticism in another thread, though. Honestly I can't see why CB shouldn't be trying to appeal to the bigger market, though - otherwise it feels like a needless distraction from their core business, unless they just need the KS for some quick cash to keep things rolling.

    Another thing that would have made sense is for it to be a way to experiment with and iterate on Siocast before rolling it out to more Infinity figures... but it's not even that, since I think they're going with PVC for most of the bigger figures. Very confusing.
     
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  10. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    CB admited the target of the KS for Defiance was Infinity players. Boardgamers prefer preassambled plastic and non wargame rules (Defiance was way more boardgamy than TAGRaid). And being avaliable after KS ends also would help, even more for reasonable prices. Deviate from that, and it loses points in boardgame market.

    Not pushing it into boardgamer channels (I mean in general sense, not videos) matches with not being interested beyond a limited target. That or self sabotage.

    They are selling OOP Infinity models in the KS.

    Confirmed PVC. And Siocast launch went "meh" with the distributors getting the first version of the remote, not just the testers (gosh, you test to fix issues before committing...). Not playing the game... and not being all hands on the deck (before Covid, which just made it worse).
     
  11. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    I'm working on making peace at this point with the fact that CB has managed to create a kickstarter that is both completely uninteresting to me as an N4 player (obviously there are N4 players whom it does appeal to, but in my opinion it's simply not a good value proposition) while also not having broad commercial reach. Godspeed, Spiderman.
     
    #131 Lawson, Nov 15, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  12. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    They also said they 'tested Sciocast for half a year before implementation', 'Tag Raid Tags will be Sciocast' and a lot of things. Ask yourself this: Why go Kickstarter and loose a % of your income if not to reach a broader audience? Why go board game if not to appeal to board game fans? I mean - yes, Tag Raid and Defiance were targeted at Infinity fanbase, because as mentioned before - outside of Infinity fanbase Corvus Belli doesn't exist in a wider awareness. I'm not saying CB succeeded at appealing to board game fans. I'm saying that they try. And not just them. GW does the same in their own way, releasing boxed games. Board Game is a much better gateway to main game than a starter box, because it seemingly is easier and self contained. Anyhow - that's just my opinion. I have no insider knowledge on what drives CB.
     
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  13. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I may be wrong, but I think "TAGRAID will be Sciocast" was an assumption the community did that was not refuted in time than an official announcement.
     
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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Siocast was a community assumption. It was refuted by CB employee on the forums and clarified it would be done in the same plastic as Defiance, but I think most people missed it and it got buried.
     
  15. Kyle Katarn

    Kyle Katarn Well-Known Member

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    It was clarified before Kickstarter, but we still had hopes for re-release some old tags (like Tikbalang) as goals or some reinforcement packs.
    It could answer some demands and also would give siocast machinery some work, so it could start returning some investments. So we expected it to happen, since it seemed for some as mutually beneficial.
     
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  16. 1337Bolshevik

    1337Bolshevik Spite alone holds me aloft

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    I see that we've met someone who does not buy the rule books, because all that fluff exists within deadalus falls, in detail.
     
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  17. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    IIRC it was that TAGRaid was going to be plastic and Siocast was announced at same time more or less, so people assumed that "plastic" meant Siocast and not PVC, until the issue was clarified. It made sense, do a KS to test the workflow and pay the machine; that is one of the original ideas behind crowdfunding. But...

    ... I doubt CB is losing any profit (the add-ons sell at ~50%, so maybe even earning more than selling into normal channels). Distributors and shops are the ones not getting the income.
     
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  18. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    They are games that aren't supported or sold outside Kickstarter, they are not intended to reach a wide audience. They are simply FOMO cash grabs at the current community.

    CB seems basically done with infinity as a game system, no balance updates, no reworks. Still waiting on Link reworks since N4 released.
     
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  19. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    Yeah, you're right folks. My bad. I re-watched old uploads and the ScioCast Tag Raid was how the thing got projected as a result, rather than a solid statement from CB.

    What I was thinking about is this: If Tag Raid is really aimed at existing fanbase, then why not use own webstore and a huge pre-order instead of KS? Sure KS generates some excitement, but you pay for it. Same goes for Gamefund after. I strongly doubt that KS has any advantage over CB own channels and related channels (WGC Infinity etc) to reach existing Infinity fans. What comes in mind is:
    - Cause KS is well established and it would be easier to sell more stuff this way,
    - Cause ongoing new releases during the campaign might influence people who pledged low to go Plat, increasing sale,
    - As an investment in KS history of funded projects,
    I might be missing something, but I can't figure out why KS over own channels, if not to reach new parts of the market.

    Imagine all the disappointment when you pledged Defiance Plat and wait for Shasvastii, 0-12 and stuff all the while people get to purchase new regular releases outright. I think this is why Tag Raid is not doing that great, compared to previous KS.
     
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  20. 1337Bolshevik

    1337Bolshevik Spite alone holds me aloft

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    [QUOTE="AmPm, post: 421407, member:
    CB seems basically done with infinity as a game system, no balance updates, no reworks. Still waiting on Link reworks since N4 released.[/QUOTE]

    Idk, MO got a big update 7 months ago. I'm pretty content with the slow pace of update or change. Let's you enjoy things as they are when grenades aren't being flung at you every month.
     
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