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How excessively do you proxy?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by prophet of doom, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I sometimes find lists here consisting of 10 Galwegians or 12 volunteers with chain rifles, 6 baggage bots, etc. I then wonder: Who buys all that shit?

    So do you buy all those models that you spam the board with or do you use proxies?

    I don't proxy all that much, I sometimes decide that I cannot use a certain trooper because I don't have the model for it. I might decide that I will put a second volunteer with chain rifle in my link using a galwegian. But then i would not put a real galwegian into my list to avoid confusion. I just don't think that would be fair to my opponent.

    I might use my Intruder HMG as a Sin Eater in a Bakunin list. Or I use the Grenzer Sniper as an Intruder sniper in Corregidor. the models look similar and i believe I cannot really confuse people this way because Intruders can't be in a Bakunin list, etc. this way I am also considering just using the jaguars as morlocks into bakunin armies.

    This is mostly talking about casual games. There is also the issue with people doing this in tournaments, which is strictly speaking illegal, but nobody really cares.
     
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  2. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I do try to collect everything for my armies to a reasonable degree (for example in SAA this would mean having 1 of each SWC options for Regulars, 4-5 standard Combis (because this is the amount I'm frequently using), and if I want to play something crazy, like 10-15 of them, I just use Fusiliers or Thorakitai.

    Dakini being used as a Devabot is a common proxy, as are knights taking place of other orders (I do try to be careful with the last one, as to prevent confusion, just as you've said it wouldn't be fair).
     
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  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I have almost all of the Aleph range (I just don't bother anymore with buying things I never use, like Hector or Ayax, or Acmon, or some of the "repeated" loadouts like the Agema sniper), but I always proxy Diomedes (the mini is horrible for my transportation needs, so I use a regular Ekdromos).

    Then I go to CA and until now I was forced to proxy the Nexus (and still will, beacuse I need to field 2 and have only 1), or see the Mercs extra (I have "only" 3 Yuan Yuan), or see myself playing with Nomads/Haqquislam (from which I lack a lot of miniatures), and...
     
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  4. DruidNei

    DruidNei Well-Known Member

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    For Nomads I proxy almost everything that doesn't have new models, Morans, Zeros, Morlocks (until recently, I'll buy the new box), basic Zonds (i use Aleph's REMs instead), Zoe & Pi-Well. Grenzer Sniper also stand in for Intruder many times. In Aleph mostly Dakinis.

    I refuse to buy badly aged models and just wait patiently for resculpts. I would start JSA a long time ago if the models were up to current quality.

    In my group we have only one player who sticks to WYSIWYG but doesn't mind the rest of us proxying stuff.
     
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  5. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Huh, I'm pretty sure that depends on what TOs say. Official ITS rules are somewhat okay with proxies as long as it doesn't confuse your opponent. Did that change?

    As for myself, I'm collecting HB right now. Only "hard" proxies (as in: something that represents another unit entirely) I considered so far are:

    - Ghulam sniper as Leila; later on I found someone to split Dire Foes box with.
    - Old rifle daylami as rifle ghulam; now that I did a Red Veil + Beyond split, I have plenty of extra ghulam models...
    - Janissaries as asawiras; that's more sketchy, but I'm not a huge fan of current asawira models. Thankfully, there's no jannisaries in HB, so I'm not really confusing people. I wish I could magnet and swap hands freely between BSG Jan, Jan Doc and Spitfire Tarik, but...
    - Literally anything as chickenbots. God. Patiently waiting for that (very distant, apparently) day when we would get something more pragmatically designed and military-themed.

    There's also random thoughts like "Al'Djabel can pass for rifle lasiq", but I've never felt like having to run more than one lasiq anyway. I mean, I can think of circumstances I'd try that under (biotechvore; start with temporary lasiq core, run up the board and spread, breaking the link, go into coordinated SF, token another core into existence), but even then it feels more like a gimmick than something solid.

    That said, I think that it's better to proxy [unit A, weapon X] with [unit B, weapon X] than with [unit A, weapon Y], but our local TO generally disagree, it seems.
     
    #5 Barrogh, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Official ITS rules are that you have to use the correct model if it's been released, or a conversion. But I don't know a single TO who follows that to the letter.

    Personally I tend to proxy weapon loadouts rather than units (for example a second Unidron Sniper in a Fireteam), but if so there will be a note attached to the model to make it clear. Unless I'm trying out wacky experimental lists in a club game...
     
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  7. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's the thing with it, conversion may mean a simple weapon swap that is easy to do for some models, and after that you can nominate the unit as whatever remotely fitting.

    I personally think it's indeed guidelines for TOs more than anything as they should probably still specify further (for example, on conversions).

    As for TOs themselves following it, I found local TOs to be a little bit more restrictive. Default rules here seem to be "official model with proper loadout if it exits; otherwise any official model for this unit, appropriately marked".

    And then there are folks who would take issue with your Doc if "regalia" marking him as doc (medigun, paramedic's bag etc.) can only be seen from certain angles, like said bag that cannot be seen from the front if it's on the back, but that's another story...
     
  8. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Lightly, really, really, lightly, but I have no problem with my opponents Proxing, personally I usually convert the extra models or loadouts I want.
     
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  9. chaos11

    chaos11 Well-Known Member

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    I proxy more because I don't like models - If the model is available and I like it, I'll buy it, but I don't buy models I don't like as a general rule. I tend to try to fit models I like into lists though so I haven't needed to proxy much (in the small amount I've played so far).
     
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  10. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I proxy a zondcat for pi-well every game because she is S2 and her official model is much shorter than that, so it just makes for more honest LoS checks. Other than that I hardly proxy at all.
     
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  11. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    has anyone ever seen a player with those 10 galwegians with chainrifles, all the proper models? Another one is the inferior infiltration Grunt with flamethrower spam. Some people supposedly put 4 of those in their lists but it should be quite expensive to get 4 of that model.
     
  12. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Very much the same. For example i bought Uxia as a mk5 before the second posthuman box existed, and i still use her (painted as my other posthumans) because i don't like the official one. I tend to only play minis i own (or for which i have a designed replacement like Uxia) and i often just proxy weapons of a same model.
     
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  13. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I've never actually seen such lists in the first place. Except that one time when someone posted a 30 orders list with numerous gals and volunteers on the old forum for the lulz and thus managed to provoke someone into ranting about broken game. Promises to demand WYSIWYG for such a list were also involved.
     
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  14. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    I try to remain as WYSIWYG as possible (allowing CCW-only models to proxy loadouts), unless specific loadouts or units weren't released at all.

    Get extra combi grunts or spares from the special weapon box, convert HFTs or give them the ones from extra HFT Marauders people bought to convert before the box came out.
     
    #14 Pierzasty, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  15. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    Depends on whether a CCW-only Galwegian is a proper model of a chain rifle one or a proxy.
     
  16. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    4 flamethrower grunts is way easier than you'd think:
    The guy from the swc box.
    Either of the male starter set grunts and the marauder and swap their guns.
    Then you get hold of a light shotgun for the other starter grunt(this is wysiwyg since the only grunts with light shotguns also have flamethrowers) my personal preference for a donner is the old 3rd Highlander grey since you can give him a gun from the spec ops blister and that gives you two shotguns.
    The female rifle grunt takes a bit more work to disguise the magazine she's pulling out of her pocket, but if you don't want to do that you can also use the other male rifle grunt from the start or the grenade launcher from the swc box.

    Now all that said, I have a couple of models with pistol and knife combos that are proxied as whatever I need them to be as well...
     
  17. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Playing with Tohaa, I have most of the Faction (Tohaa is the Faction with less models/profiles, so it's the easier to complete), so I can keep proxing to the minimun, usually just for models that don't exist (for example, LRL Sakiel, Boarding Shotgun Clipsos...).

    Also, a couple of times I have used different equiped Kawaai Sentinels as SMG ones because I wanted to deploy three SMG Sentinels and I only have one.
     
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  18. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Well-Known Member

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    Related to this topic, folks may want to check out the extremely nice weapons markers that were created by Miralad - the place to look is the "Custom Token Sheet Creator" topic in the "News" sub-forum. Besides helping to visually clarify proxied weapons loadouts, they can also be used to show loot acquired through Booty etc. They're so nice that I believe toadchild has now included a link to them as part of his awesome custom marker creator app.
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Your phrasing might mean a few different things, but just to be clear, if a model hasn't been released yet, you're explicitly allowed to proxy it by the ITS rules.

    The amount of time my Treitak spent standing in for a Nexus was... significant.
     
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  20. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I find Infinity to be a great system for hobbyists who like to do conversions. Converting a unit to represent your favorite loadout that has no official model is fun.

    The area where I generally proxy loosely is Remotes. My Fugazi, for example, don't all have the Fugazi Sensor suite; I just leave them unadorned and call them Fugazi, because I'm not buying 3 Remote boxes to get the pieces for fielding 3 Fugazi.

    Similarly, my baggage bots don't have exact loadouts. Sometimes I want to field two 8 point versions, so my EVO stands in as an 8 pointer.

    I see lots of folks using different model REMs, or even REMs from entirely different factions, to stand in as their basic Remotes. I'm generally find with this, though I do get a bit annoyed when heavy proxies are used for spammable/repeatable troop types. If someone bringing all those Galwegians or Kuang Shi, I like seeing someone put in the time/cash/attention for it.
     
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