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How do you use Daturazi

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Natsymir, May 10, 2019.

  1. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    I've begun playing vanilla Combined quite recently. I see Daturazi figuring in a lot of lists, and have played around with the obvious loadout (chain rifle) a bit, but have a hard time figuring out how to use them. I mean, extremely impetous smoke throwers in other armies are irregular and cost like 5 pts, so they are obvious chaff or kamikaze pieces, but Daturazi are regular, so they're almost three times that point cost. How are you supposed to use them?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Back so they can move + smoke your HMG Charontid with MSV3 for "free" smoke. After that, you use their regular order for other models... or to advance the Daturazi to a position they can move+smoke in the next turn without autodying.

    Also, as bodyguards for the Charontid.

    If no charontid (or other MSV2 unit)... Side guardians, I assume, to chain rifle/beat to death enemy AD troopers. The troop that performs a similar role in a vanilla are the Myrmidons, paying 3 extra points for ODD (but -1 phys and AM3 only).
     
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  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Don't forget those frag grenades. They're a fairly rare item, and Daturazi are quite good with them.
     
  4. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    There are a few things about daturazi that I feel often go unsaid but should:

    First, try to position them in total cover in ways that they can run their full first move and still be in total cover. This is easier said than done, but there are ways. You should also position them in a way that they can overlap each other, so you can activate one, have him move up and toss smoke, and hopefully his smoke will cover the other(s) advance too.

    I don't like Daturazi if I don't want their smoke. I prefer Krakots as deployment and corner defense as they are easier to control and hit slightly harder (DA>AP in most cases).

    Also, you should always consider whether to throw a grenade or chainrifle. If your enemy declares shoot, you might want to chainrifle to make sure they get hit, but if they can't be downed in one wound or if they declare dodge, you're better throwing a grenade as you force an FTF where you can usually get a better chance of winning if your enemy is out of cover.

    Also, don't be afraid of spending orders on these guys on your turn to move them into total cover or push them up corners to catch your enemy off guard. These dudes are really good at shanking skirmishers from behind, for example.
     
  5. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Of course, a perfectly valid question is - couldn't you apply the same techniques to cheaper warbands and reap even greater results? Maybe!

    But Daturazi add some very valuable capabilities to the armies that they are in, and it's worth trying to get the most out of them. Even if they are unfortunate enough to run right out into the middle of the table in front of their enemies, the combination of mimetism and PH 14 means they are more likely to get their smoke off than just about anything other than a Myrmidon. And Myrmidons, of course, are very clearly Daturazi Mk 2 (in fact, a lot of the original Aleph models were based on CA equivalents).
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Remember when Netrods were flat-out better than Imetrons for the same points?
     
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  7. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    I believe @ijw has claimed he was in part responsible for arguing that the gap should be closed.

    I always figured it was a case of them trying to be careful about not upsetting existing balance - CA clearly already "worked" as an army, and AI Beacons are pretty much a straight buff to your order pool, since they're so cheap. They were more comfortable with them in Aleph, since they were building the faction from the ground up. Combined Army, however, might have been pushed over the top if they got too many cheap and reliable orders. The risk didn't end up actually materializing, and so they upgraded them in the new edition.

    It's the same sort of idea as the TAG pilot rule, where they added them as an afterthought in Human Sphere because pilot models would be cool, but then made them have as little impact on the game as possible by making them not generate orders and having (at the time) really terrible skills/stats. I'm glad they made the pilot equipment more interesting and useful eventually, but I'm still kind of sad they didn't revisit things like order generation. It would have been an interesting way to further differentiate piloted and G:RP TAGs.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @toadchild I think they just need to make TAGs generate two orders - one for the TAG itself and one for the pilot (remote or otherwise).
     
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  9. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    Back to Datz. (although yeah I'd love tac awareness for TAGs)

    They are premium warbands who can also do the same job as your line troopers due to regular orders, there is a knack to them but conservative deployment works very well along with a plan for what it is you're trying to drop smoke for, attack or what imporant piece you're trying to defend.
     
  10. Bohrdog

    Bohrdog Santathematics

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    I use them to smoke cover the advance of my Hungries and soon my Taigha. Plus the other uses stated above.
     
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  11. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The really nice thing about them is regular order and regular impetuous. They do the line trooper and warband role. I'm always pretty jealous of Datz.
     
  12. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    Having just been reminded this topic exists I'm going to quickly recap my tournament experience from the weekend:

    Round 1: I lost because of a daturatzi, my opponents Daturatzi, which despite the odds dodged into combat with and locked up my Raicho.
    Round 2: won because of a daturatzi looting a box and killing a khawarji with a grenade.
    Round 3: won as a daturatzi put smoke down for my charontid (allowing it to HMG a Hac -Tao) and then got into combat (and killing) 3 Zhuyongs stopping them storming the armoury

    Also Taigah Datz tag team is so good.
     
  13. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    You might be thinking of the Krakot. Regular Impetuous, FD, and MetaChem make for a very interesting kit that doesn't suicide if you don't want it to.

    Datz are extremely impetuous, so you have to be a bit more careful in how you deploy them. Though throwing smoke on 17s is usually enough to have them survive the first wave of impetuous orders.
     
  14. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    Their natural predator the MSV ARO piece will still often have a tough time generally against just a Phy 14 dodge as well which is usually even or slightly better odds in all but the most extreme situations.