How do you handle TAGs?

K1 Sukeul, Panzerfaust Kosuil/Neema, Makauls

 

Makuals, always makauls.

 

Not many people play TAGs in my meta (I'm nearly the only one), so I don't have much experience against them, but on the other hand I played quite a few times with them. If you manage to survive until your active turn, you need either CC or AP/K1/Breaker ammo.

Try to shoot them in the back and out of cover, as TAGs shoot well and already have high armor. They also have lots of wounds, so you need multiple successful rolls to take them down.

Just moving into cc with them may not be enough, as they tend to have not horrible CC skills, so they can punch back decently, and they can just bring the 16pts S3 REM, and triangulated fire you off them.

Throwing eclipse smoke on them, moving a Makaul with the full triad in CC with the TAG, and chopping it to pieces with B3 DAM13 DA/Viral should work. Note that I-kohl doesn't affect them, unless it's a Gorgos.

My problem with K1 is that if the target is in cover, it has a lousy chance to wound, and you won't have much opportunities to wound something that has BS15 and is in suppressive fire (not all TAGs are ofc).

Good candidates are boarding shotguns. +6 range gives you an edge against TAG's high BS, AP or template is good against their high armor.

Linked Sukeul ML sounds really scary as a TAG player, and since in a link Panzerfaust also has B2, that may work as well, though you only have one shot.

From the options above the B3 Makauls seems the best. DAM13 is not much, but you can roll a lot of dice. Maybe you'll crit or something.

 

Thats exactly what you want, spend all those orders just to shoot me clear, that leaves them with only a couple to get things done with the tag. Also just a solo Makaul:

Viral:
Active Player
23.94% Jotums inflicts 1 or more wounds on Makaul (Unconscious)

Failures
32.50% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
43.56% Makaul inflicts 1 or more wounds on Jotums (2 STR)
11.20% Makaul inflicts 2 or more wounds on Jotums (1 STR)

DA:
Active Player
23.94% Jotums inflicts 1 or more wounds on Makaul (Unconscious)

Failures
35.93% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
40.13% Makaul inflicts 1 or more wounds on Jotums (2 STR)
8.84% Makaul inflicts 2 or more wounds on Jotums (1 STR)

and if you get a full triad in there:
Active Player
5.11% Jotums inflicts 1 or more wounds on Makaul (Unconscious)

Failures
18.67% Neither player succeeds
Reactive Player
76.22% Makaul inflicts 1 or more wounds on Jotums (2 STR)
45.21% Makaul inflicts 2 or more wounds on Jotums (1 STR)
18.33% Makaul inflicts 3 or more wounds on Jotums (Unconscious)
4.79% Makaul inflicts 4 or more wounds on Jotums (Unconscious 2)
0.72% Makaul inflicts 5 or more wounds on Jotums (Dead)

 

Still, some orders lost to getting off your triad is still better than an unusable TAG. Triangulated fire is B3, hits on 8 or less (Pathfinder is BS11), someone should do the math :)

Funny how effective DAM13 is against ARM10. They have to roll a 4 or more, so you have 15% per dice to wound.

 

Im not sure what you mean? MA lvl 2 is +3 so damage 16, the numbers are correct, and its viral, so thats 2 bts saves

 

Missed the +3 DAM part. May or may not be Viral, DA ccw is useful for missions that need some anti material trait (though D-charge may or may not be better there). But yeah, hitting TAGs on the BTS is usually more or the same effective.

 

If you want to try something cheaper Order-wise, the Igao has a good chance of putting the first wound thanks to Surprise Shot or Surprise Attack. After getting into close combat you only need to fish for crits (25% chance) if you want to expend Orders, or you can just leave the TAG and the Igao locked in combat and go after something else. After all, a TAG is so big compared to the S2 Igao that you can use the TAG as cover, so it'll be very difficult for the oponent to use the Triangulated Fire trick.

By the way, I prefer th ML Sukeul for dealing with TAGs, I just proposed the Igao as a Close Combat alternative to the Makaul Triad.

 

Some good things have already been said. The Sukeul ML is the best one against PanO TAGs in reactive but the Nikoul is an alternative to gain time. I'm surprised the Kerail hasn't been mentioned yet. He has Smokes, a SMG and a Beast or two if you can reach the TAG to CC. 2 attacks with Viral CCW at DMG 16 will do some scratches.

 

Depends what your up against. I divide TAGs into modifier TAGs (Cutter, Avatar, Sphinx, Uhlan etc) and "TAGs you can actually shoot" (the rest). If they are running the former, hide everything and try to get into CC with Makauls or the battlecats. The latter dies easily enough to a Sukuel HMG with enough orders (which can end up being a lot when they are ARM 11 to ARM 13 in cover), but the best option I've found is a Sukuel K1 Combi which is often in my CQB triads. That thing really does shred TAGs like they are high BS Fusiliers.

The Sukuel Missile is another option, but I find it risky. In the reactive turn its probably not beating a TAG, and mainly work as a deterrent or a "spend a couple orders to get inside 24"" speedbump. On the active turn B2 against B1 ARO is also just so dicey. I wouldn't take this just as a TAG answer, but if taken as an ARO piece with shotgun and anti-TAG utility it looks way more appealing.

Re: CC and shooting, I regularly play against PanO TAGs and I've found that most of the effect of a CC on shooting is psychological. Any half decent PanO chump can shoot into the melee with a combi or spitfire, waste your attackers and have their occasional miss ping off of the TAGs armour. Most of my games with this player turn into "hide from TAG, lock it in CC, not enough orders to kill, get shot out of CC in 2 orders"

 

Makauls are indeed excellent but if you're looking for an alternative, consider preceptors.

Preceptor with two surdas can near-guarantee kill a TAG if you deliver them to melee. If they attack the Preceptor himself they take six DAM17 BTS rolls; if they attack a symbiobeast they get electric pulsed and you can attack them for free until they're dead.

 

Sukeuls and Makauls can solve basically all Tohaa problems, between the two of them. A linked Missile Sukeul in ARO has as good or better odds to push damage through as Swiss Missile. A linked Kosuil has a fighting chance, but don't trust her.

In the active turn, your FO Sukeuls and Makauls can lay the hurt on. Even the Heavy Flamethrower, with repeated pressure, will push damage through against a TAG in cover. Ectros, if you like those, have multiple options, being able to lock the TAG in CC, gun them down (Viral and Vulkan being your best here), or Nanopulser them if they're on their last Wound and have the standard BTS6.

 

What's the reason to bring Ectros over Sukeul? That mimetism is a big thing to win firefights, and while there's a big difference between a normal HI and an LI, Sukeul already has 2 wounds, so a third one is not that big of a game changer. I'd rather win firefigths more consistently than have some backup plan (+1 ARM1 wound is a bit slim one too).

 

Well, the Sukeul's Mimetism is lost on the first wound, while an Ectros performance is more consistent throught its three wounds

 

Extra Wounds, extra durability in general. The Sukeul is great at "take." However, it is not great at "hold." If you are pushing into the middle on a mission like Quadrant Control or Frontline, the Ectros is more reliable.

There are many threats (Warbands, CC units, Camo units, any BS12+ Visor unit) that can reliably put down a Sukeul, but these have a harder time against the roly-poly Ectros with his PH14 and Nanopulser. My Viral and Vulkan Ectros go to town on Ariadna opponents.

 

I had great success with rasial boarsing team against a cutter and a tik yesterday. Used viral on them, while charging them with the chaska for the free heavy flame thrower hit.