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How do you deal with the Kamau Sniper?

Discussion in 'Druze Bayram Security' started by oldGregg, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I'm running through the Dice Calculator, and fully expect to be facing this monster one day soon. How do you prepare for the encounter? More importantly, how do you beat it?

    Face to Face Roll
    Druze Shock Teams (Mimetism) - MULTI Sniper Rifle vs. Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) - MULTI Sniper Rifle
    Active Player
    29.07% Druze Shock Teams (Mimetism) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
    6.29% Druze Shock Teams (Mimetism) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead)

    Failures
    33.56% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    37.37% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Druze Shock Teams (Mimetism) (Unconscious)
    6.14% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Druze Shock Teams (Mimetism) (Dead)

    Active Model
    • Base BS of 12
    • Cover grants -3 BS
    • Cover grants opponent +3 ARM
    • Link Team grants +3 BS
    • CH/ODD grants -3 BS
    • Range grants +3 BS
    • Link Team grants +1 B
    • Fatality grants +1 DAM
    • Net BS is 12

    Reactive Model
    • Base BS of 13
    • Cover grants -3 BS
    • Cover grants opponent +3 ARM
    • Link Team grants +3 BS
    • MSV ignores CH modifier
    • Range grants +3 BS
    • Link Team grants +1 B
    • Net BS is 16
     
  2. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Druze Bayram Security
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)

    2 SWC | 55 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Your Mimetism is useless against him, why not take the Brawler with MSV2, that negates his Mimetism.
    So thats BS15 B3 vs BS16 B2 - already much better.
    Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) - MULTI Sniper Rifle (Anti-Materiel Mode) vs. Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) - MULTI Sniper Rifle (Anti-Materiel Mode)
    Active Player
    45.87% Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
    29.41% Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead)
    Failures
    18.62% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    35.51% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
    17.46% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) (Dead)

    And a nimbus in the LoF might even further your chances,
    because B2 vs B1 is better than B3 vs B2:
    With Nimbus it's BS12 B2 vs BS13 B1 (it negates the link-bonus for both):
    Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) - MULTI Sniper Rifle (Anti-Materiel Mode) vs. Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) - MULTI Sniper Rifle (Anti-Materiel Mode)
    Active Player
    49.47% Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
    27.72% Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead)
    Failures
    24.17% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    26.36% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
    9.54% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Brawlers, Mercenary Enforcers (MSV 2) (Dead

    And with the Smoke, the MSV2 Sniper might be useful even if there is no Kamau (left) to face.
     
    #2 daszul, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Hunzakut - drop a Mine around the corner then shoot with rifle, Kamau is forced to Dodge or eat a Mine unopposed. LGL is also an option.

    Saito - Murder the rest of the link, then the Sniper is just an ARM 2 Nisse.

    Bashi Bouzouk - Either use it to kill the support, or drop the chain colt on it forcing a Dodge or unopposed hit.

    Peacemaker - Getting close enough might be tricky, but you're forcing choices again.

    Druze LGL - Isolate either the sniper, the link leader, or the rest of the team to reduce link bonuses.

    Coordinated Order - Sniper is forced to Dodge or eat unopposed rolls.
     
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  4. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Clipper - FO it or another Link Team member with a Hunzakut or Pathfinder and fire a Guided Missle from out of sight. Might be worse it to dislodge the toughest ARO unit in the game plus you might catch other troopers under the template too.
     
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  5. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    This here is the ticket, ignore the sniper, concentrate in the team, THEN kill the sniper.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yeah, the answer to "how do I outshoot a linked Kamau" is "you don't"
     
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  7. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    Even a speculative E/M Grenade can take apart a link team, fatality works on the grenade too, right?
     
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  8. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    How do you FO it if you can't win the F2F roll?

    I think this 100% the answer. Like the Mines and Hunzakut, but how would you break the link if you can't approach it? (Same goes for breaking it down with Saito).

    Its a bit easier with the peacemaker, and I've had luck breaking similar links with this piece. Still, getting close can be extremely terrain dependent. Same goes for the Bashi.

    Coordinated orders; may take some time/effort to line up, but I could see this working.

    Druze (or maybe even Hunzakut, though less so) LGL seem the way to go. I appreciate all the input, folks!

    Yeah, well, that wasn't really the question, though my shooting example probably didn't help your understanding.
     
  9. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    @colbrook understood, you can see it in his first response, and for what it looks he actually gave you the best options to do it (that i can see, never played Bayaram)

    Hazankut LGL
    Bashi if you see an opening to land
    Pacemaker with a suicide Auxbot
     
  10. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    You kind of answered your own question here. :)

    The linked Kamau MSR MSV-2 is objectively the best area denial in the game. We know how this one works, because the linked brawler MSR is similarly effective. The odds usually do not favor taking this thing on when it's setting the terms of the engagement. Unlike our brawler, it's is not as susceptible to most high burst weapons because of mimetism.

    @daszul has it right, attacking it with the Brawler Sniper in your active turn is probably your best bet for dealing with it directly and with few orders. It's just that this won't happen often with experienced players. As a note, I really like the Nimbus interplay here. I hadn't thought of that, but it reduces your chance of failure by roughly 33%.... that's freaking huge.

    My buddy and I were theorizing this sniper duel out before VIRD hit. It was interesting to see that the rolls here really favor the active turn player, which means when DBS and VIRD face off, both players need to be very careful with their linked snipers at deployment.

    Other than that, @colbrook has the right idea, use something else to engage it on your terms outside of the sniper's good range bands or just weaken the link by killing other units. My preferred method, if terrain permits, is sling-shoting the Peacemaker's auxbot into the link and see if you can get multiple units under the template.
     
    #10 jfunkd, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The most reliable (though not necessarily order efficient) way is probably the EM LGL, you don't have to target the sniper, isolating the Fireteam Leader is just as good, or you can aim for bunched up Fusiliers and maybe even put them in LoL.

    The aim is to strip the FT bonuses and then hammer the now BS13 Burst 1 sniper with a Druze HMG or other suitably heavy weapon.
     
  12. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. This is pretty cool.

    I love this tactic.

    ... And my opponents hate when I pull it off.

    I referenced each of his options. You can see it in my second post.
    I also liked the comment but, while it is true, isn't exactly the most helpful. Which is why I quoted it in a direct reply.


    This is a lot of good stuff for dealing with it (the linked kamau) in your active turn. How do y'all prepare for your reactive turn? When my opponents don't properly prepare for my Brawler, things get really messy. Do you hide? Leave prepared mines with the hunzakut? I realize AROs can be stacked, but this can often fall to pie slicing/be heavily terrain dependent.
     
  13. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    This is situational to the scenario, but use total cover and hide in the areas the Kamau sniper can see, or move to see. Force the link to move forward to bring it's firepower to bear, let it come up into your repeater's and shotgun's range, ARO mine drop with Hunzakuts to stall them for even more activations, or if he gives you an opportunity to get multiple link members in the template, take the shottie shot.

    Just think what you would do with the Brawler/Druze MSR and then don't let them do that to you! Easy!

    Yeah, so..... not easy, but you can contain the threat in the reactive with decent positioning. You are not going to out shoot that link in the reactive, so best not to give them targets.
     
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  14. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Crom laughs at your dice calculator. Laughs from his mountain.

    But seriously, forget the calculator. Just play the game.
     
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  15. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    Heh, I learn quite a bit from the dice calculator post game. If I thought a roll had a good chance of success, but failed, I sometimes check what the odds were and then I’m more informed if a similar situation comes up again.

    A lot of my decisions on the table come down to statistics when going for FTF rolls.

    Sometimes there is something you need to do and the odds don’t matter at all, but mostly probilitites are good to be aware of and it’s how I play the game.

    Bayram only cares what the man on the mountain says when his money is being spent anyways.
     
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  16. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I get a lot of enjoyment from this game because of the probabilities involved. I'm of the same mind as @jfunkd on this one.
     
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  17. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Awhile ago I made a cheat sheet to help me deal with determining how to approach similar situations (this guy has a high BS low burst ARO, how do I handle it.)

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yMKmTAjQyH81SfmKf0um8eI7uEZlJ5Dq/view?usp=sharing

    Ultimately I walked away with the quick formula that a "good shot" (where I have a 66% chance to win the face to face) is at a BS where Active BS = 8.5 + (0.75 * Reactive BS) + (1.5 * Reactive Burst) - (2* Active Burst)

    Most of the time this formula just leads me to "shoot it with the Kriza Borac."

    Unfortunately Druze doesn't have that and the combo of MSV2 and SSL2 means you can't even get a good shot with Saito in the 0-8 band. Really I think you have to dismantle the link, it's just too strong to challenge directly otherwise.
     
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  18. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    This made me smile. Thank you.
     
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  19. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide That's just like your opinion man.
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    Don’t use a low burst weapon... a linked Druze HMG at least wins 40% to the Kamau’s 29%. That’s still too risky in my book though and would use some of the other methods listed... like a Peacemakers auxbot to the face. :)
     
  20. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Yeah thats not how probability curves work.
     
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