So after my latest game in which my Ninja did a suprise ARO from hidden deployment/attacked literally anything or moved within sight of any enemy, and then died instantly to a crit... How do I use the ninja? I've never had one accomplish anything in game, so I'm obviously doing something very wrong. Please advise.
Don't surprise ARO. You cede almost all the advantages that camo and hidden deployment provide (surprise attack, full burst, Rambo potential). There are few precious moments where a surprise ARO is justified, but it reeks of desperation, like dodging in the active turn. This is true even for engage AROs that I describe in my tactica. With stealth, camo, infiltration, and an eagerness to reach CC, they are perfect for approaching a vulnerable model in the midfield. If the ninja also has a combi you can try your hand at basic skirmisher tactics (just slightly more expensive). With a killer hacker device, you can use your opponent's network to assassinate solitary and/or weaker hackers. Regardless, the key is deployment. If you choose an ideal ambush spot, you can pounce on an enemy in just one order. While this is true of any TO skirmisher, the ninja is much deadlier than others in CC (and thusly rewards lucky/skilled/insightful deployment much more). As an added bonus, you can lock down enemies in CC that are too tough to slay in one attack and too dangerous to continue with CC attacks. Other CC specialists can swoop in and finish the job (with bonuses from the ninja) or you can just ignore the threat and let your opponent deal with it on his turn.
Wait for that magical moment when you get to declare an ARO vs the second short skill of the enemy. You can't really negate crits through planning - just make sure you stack as many mods in your favour. As said above, active turn is where you get the surprise bonus, so generally that is where you want to make your moves... Unless revealing yourself will the result in wrecking your opponent's plans (like locking off a corridor to an Obj).
If you reveal against a Link team that is busy fighting other models, you can ARO against a non-active member of the link to get an uncontested attack roll. Just make sure that the active model in the link isn't in a position to blow their entire burst (or even half of it) on you for your trouble. Dropping out of TO in ARO can be very powerful (it's basically the only way for the Reactive Player to decide the terms of an engagement) but you need to be very confident in why you're dropping out in ARO instead of Active.
In my case, I was thinking I'd do it when they pushed the button, but it occurs to me that I don't know if pushing the button would render them unable to shoot at me while pushing said button, if it was their first declared skill.
Pushing a button is usually an Attack skill so it would prevent them from shooting back. Usually the fact that they've pushed the button cannot be undone and the tactical advantage of killing their model while it is unable to respond is easier and more efficient in your active turn. I'd recommend starting with the rule "I will never reveal the ninja from hidden or marker state." That rule will drive you to amazing ninja plays 90% of the time. The next 9% is knowing when to aro vs a discover roll, but I usually don't reveal. Last 1% is this VERY rare interrupt you were trying for. Ninja needs 1 of 2 things to be decent: burst advantage or no bs attack back. The gap between decent and good is the surprise shot l2 you only get when revealing from marker state. 1 quick easy play: combi rifle ninja. pick a rooftop with good lof into your opponents half but inside your half. Deploy standing there saying nothing to your opponent expect turn around for hidden deployment. No roll. After your opponent deploys or moves units into its lof, at the start of your next turn: activate model revealing the marker, declare move (move staying in cover if necessary) then drop prone(taking you out of lof for next orders) , opponents aros will tell you what's delaying to shoot at you or not, then surprise shot l2, shoot at any models that delayed. The enemies will probably have -3 for cover, -6 for to camo, -3 for surprise shot. If range bands are in their favor you still probably have >=3 difference in your favor. Then, next order you ninja can full order recamo. 3rd order stand up and shoot any survivors.
It might actually have rendered them unable to shoot you, as in some/most missions "pushing the button" is considered an attack. I also can only highly advice against revealing your ninja in an ARO, never ever worked for me, not even in the only "optimal" situation I can imagine, which was my enemy trying to recamo with his back turned to my hidden deployment ninja in optimal Tactical Bow range....cause I simply missed, and he sent in another unit from the backline to murder my Ninja anyways...though the look on his face when I revealed the ninja alone was worth it still :-P
Where does the Ninja get Surprise Shot level 2 from? Marker-state models get SS1 by default but you need it specifically listed to get Surprise Shot level 2 (like the Haqq Ayyar profiles, they all have SS1 except the version that specifically gets SS2). Surprise Attack is a -6 that all marker-state models but that's for Close Combat.
You're right. I was under the impression to camo came with surprise shot l2. I'll edit my post to update the numbers.
I can't really see why use combi ninja when for 5more pts you get saito togan? 5pts gets you: +1cc +1 MA +1ph exp ccw smoke if you go for combi khd, saito is also specialist for same price. Not sure if ninja is worth it?
KHD doesn't get a Combi making it much cheaper, plus KHD has a lot of utility other than being a specialist. Otherwise? Because you already have Saito.
The Ninja is one of my absolute favorite pieces in the army. They are absolutely dirt cheap for a TO skirmisher if you take them at bare bones. Like many people, the KHD is the best profile imo. here are a couple tips when trying to get accustomed to the ninja He's an incredibly powerful piece when played correctly; He can kill almost any model in the game in CC with enough orders (except other CC specialists) Deployment is key, make sure he is either deploying near a button to push or where you think your opponent will approach from. Beware of Direct Templates - they are your greatest weakness. Attack these troopers from the back Let your opponent come to you. Chances are they will leave something around the midfield - whether through a shortage of orders or they're a suppressive piece or midfield ARO. Hidden deployment and by extension Marker state is KING. this is arguably his only, and strongest, defense. NEVER reveal him on the opponents active turn. You are giving up surprise shot/ attack, your location, and your marker state. Keep in mind when moving with the marker state, you can expose yourself to the opponent for one half of one order with impunity. this is useful for crossing gaps or closing distance. It's like a get out of jail free card IF they decide to Discover and IF they succeed. Always reserve an order to put your ninja back into marker state. if left out as a model - He's dead. With stealth and a KHD he can back off from hacking an unfavorable target after he blows his surprise hack. Sometimes the knife is key, I once assassinated a Moran with a KHD ninja while his hacker friends were none the wiser due to the Silent trait on the knife. The ninja is near untouchable in CC if he's fighting a non CC specialist. Even if you are revealed and you can reach B2B in the first half of an order, their shot(s) will almost always be on a single digit. Always use MA 3 unless you're fighting a piece of scenery.
Saito Specialist breaks internal balance for the Ninja in my opinion, since I will always make room for Saito first, and then added Ninjas after as necessary. The Ninja KHD, a former staple for almost every list, is actually showing up in fewer of my lists now. I'm making do without that KHD support, since Saito as a Specialist is just incredible. I see the appeal of the Ninja FO, but the competition in that point range is extreme.
I need to play around with specialist Saito... But I consider the ninja KHD a must-have for eliminating enemy hackers. Although I think that works out better in my imagination than on the table...
Agree with everything that's been said. I don't think it is EVER worth revealing a Ninja/Oniwaban in an ARO. You lose all your bonuses and leave your uncovered behind to be shot for your trouble. The only possible exception I can theoryhammer is if it's the last order in your opponent's turn, so there's nothing left for him to attack you with. If we extend this to Raiden's Limited Camo, there is NEVER a reason to reveal in ARO, you are losing your one and only Surprise Shot.
I'm going to assume you mean Ryuken HRL, as all of the Raiden died or something. I have to hard disagree to this. The Ryuken's true purpose is to reveal in ARO against a link team, forcing them in a tough spot where you're hitting multiple members with the template and they either all dodge, or they shoot back with one guy and the rest of the team eats the fire hit. The nature of the Ryuken promotes a situation where he will never see anything in the active turn, as he should be perched up in an overwatch position covering an approach or choke. They reward a patient player who is willing to wait until the opportune chance to strike.
