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How do fireteams make attacks?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by GooeyGungan, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. GooeyGungan

    GooeyGungan New Member

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    Forgive me, because this is probably very obvious, but I can't seem to find the rules for how fireteams make attacks. My confusion is coming from the fact that BS Attack and CC Attack are not listed under any of the types of skills allowed in a fireteam order.

    Are you not required to give a fireteam order when you activate a fireteam? Can you give orders to the team leader separate from the team and make attacks then? Something else?

    Thanks for helping a confused newbie.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    BS Attack or CC Attack would both fall under "Support Skills" so only the leader performs the skill.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_in_the_Active_Turn

    SUPPORT SKILLS
    This classification includes the Skills not specified in the previous classifications. Basically, this includes the Short Movement Skill Discover, all the Short Skills (except the ones stated in the Evasionclassification), and all the Entire Order Skills that are not Movement Skills.

    This category also includes scenario Short Skills, such as "Activate Console" or "Deploy and Activate Beacon".

    When declaring Support Skills, only the Team Leader performs the roll and applies the effects. The rest of the Fireteam members do not perform any Roll or apply their effects, but they give the Team Leader certain bonuses determined by the number of Fireteam members.
     
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  3. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    What happen if the Fireteam Leader is the one engaged in CC in the active turn? He cannot attack? or he must be activated with a separate order?
     
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    You change the Team Leader with each order, so the leader could be other member of the fireteam (but the dude in melee will eat a hit without being able to defend himself, so...). To get extra Burst (and the Strenght bonus) in melee, the Fireteam members must be in base to base contact with the target.
     
  5. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    Thanks! But i have a peculiar case i'll use this topice since it's the same argument.

    Two members of a fireteam (A,B) reach Contact Base with other two enemy models (C,D). A is the fireateam leader and is in base combat with C and D while B is in contact only with C. So the B model have +1B and +1 PH since another model is in the same CC right? Can he decide to attack with his B2 only D (the one that his team mate is not in contact with)
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Please see http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_and_CC

    In the active turn, only the Fireteam Leader gets to attack. In reaction, B or D could a CC Attack ARO with bonuses, but only because the Fireteam Leader isn't in that CC.
     
  7. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    Yes, Saw that. But my question was a bit more tricky.
    I was asking if in the Active turn A can benefit to attack D with the plus Burst and PH since in the same CC but non in base to base contact with B, or if A attack D he will do with a Single Attack and without PH bonus.

    Plus: can A split his 2 attacks to two different model wich is in B2B with him? Even if one of this 2 model is not in B2B with B (that is providing the bonus to the CC)?
     
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    A & B activates. A gets bonuses against C, but not against D. C&D get ARO and, with the data provided, I assume are 2 independent troops (each gives its own order, none are linked, etc...), so they can declare whatever they want as ARO, so depending on their options, and if A spreads his burst or not, one might attack A while the other dodges, or both might try to attack or dodge.

    If A attacks D, then gets no bonus, and B is totally open to be attacked by C without being able to defend himself.
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Sorry, I mis-read your post. Yes, the Team Leader would get +1 Burst and +1 PH because there is an extra 'Fireteam member Engaged with the adversary'.
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Based on?
     
  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    A is in contact with C&D, B is in contact only with C. Per the CC & Fireteams/ghost rules, B can provide Burst & strength support only if he's B2B.

    Of course, if A &B are in a Fireteam, B can break Fireteam coherency so A attacks D and B attacks C, but none would give CC bonuses
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I don't understand what distinction you're making. B is in the combat.
     
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  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Because the Fireteam bonus rules are ambiguous. It uses the term "with the adversary" which isn't a formal term for the game and can be used both in singular and plural in English.

    Take the below example of base contact. The underline letters are a Haris, bolded A is leader. E stands for Enemy.
    AEBEC
    Does A gain +1 because it considers only the models A is Engaged to as "adversary" or +2 because it considers all enemies somehow linked to a continuous CC to be the "adversary"? What about AE BEC?
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_and_CC
    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/es/Fireteams_y_Combate_CC
    "Su adversario" would be "HIS adversary", not "the adversary", because it referes to the one in melee the leader targets. You might want to add that one to the "mistranslations" list.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_in_the_Active_Turn
    So, to provide CC bonuses, the non-leader (B) needs to declare the same order. It is my understanding that you need to select a valid target... and since B is not in B2B with D, declaring "melee with D" is not valid, thus going into idle.
     
  15. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    I believe IJW is saying that there is no distinction that separates CC like that. A is in B2B with C,D so they are all Engaged. B in B2B with either C or D adds to the Engaged grouping of "A,C, and D" not "A and C or D"
     
  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The spanish version of the rules (surprise!) differ with the english version, I'm afraid. In the english version "the adversary" is used, while in the spanish "HIS (Fireteam leader's) adversary) is used.

    Thus, CB clarification or it will depend on the language you play with. I shy away from checking out the french and german rulebooks.
     
  17. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    To expand on what DukeofEarl and Mahtamori said, it’s ‘adversary’ that isn’t defined. So in this case the difference between the two language versions is irrelevant.

    If it said ‘target’ or similar, it would be another matter.
     
  18. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Adversary, in spanish, can be read as opponent. Both, funnily enough, the model yours fights against, and the player you play against XD
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Yes, that's the same in English. That's why I said 'target' would be better. ;-)