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How competitive are MO?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Context, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Context

    Context Member

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    I’m just starting out and the MO mini’s are the ones that caught my immediately. Just like to get an idea how competitive they are? It’s by no means a deal breaker if they’re bad, would just like to know beforehand. I had a quick skim through Eciu’s thread but to be honest most of it went straight over my head.
     
  2. Dreilide

    Dreilide Well-Known Member

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    /straps in

    You've opened up a can of worms that has very ardent defenders on both sides of the issue. From having witnessed this debate multiple times, and having just recently started the game back up again with MO, they aren't bad, but you will struggle with them as a new player. They are on the lower end of the power spectrum, nothing in Infinity is truly unplayable though. They are rather one-dimensional when it comes to listbuilding, and you will have issues with some encounters in game as MO is one of the most straightforward stat-stacking factions, while Infinity really rewards special skills and tricks more heavily.

    If you like the models, go for it, you can always branch out into Vanilla PanO with a heavy MO focus if you want a more varied list.
     
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  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Before I say anything: There are going to be people storming this thread to tell you theyre shit, and another group that will tell you theyre perfectly fine. IMHO the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

    The biggest issue with MO right now is their variable power level in regards to mission and table. They can play some missions perfectly well, better than most I would even say. In other missions they really lack tools that allow other sectorials and factions to perform well. MO does have several issues that many people feel hold them back – mainly order count. MO is expensive points wise so you generally can't take all your tools in the allotted 300 points, you're always going to be leaving something at home.

    If you like the army, like the theme and are a hobbyist that really enjoys the miniatures I think you're going to have a blast playing them – their play style is also very thematic for stubborn christian space knights.
     
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  4. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Good posts above.

    If we're using the term "competitive", it's important to define what that means. I associate it with successful participation in ITS play, and I think that's standard when people discuss how competitive a faction is. If, for you, "competitive" simply means "does it smash the opponent's face", then yeah it certainly can.

    That being said, for ITS play, MO is going to be really strong in some missions and not strong in others. It's an inherent skew sectorial, with things it does well, and things it doesn't. If you look at something like Shock Army of Acontecimento, I consider them a truly competitive ITS sectorial, because they can do pretty much any ITS mission with a better-than-average chance of success. They're tactically versatile, adaptable, and generally just have great tools. They're good at many aspects of the game.

    With MO, if you play a tournament lineup that's based entirely around objective room missions, dominating quadrants and/or killing things, MO's probably going to do well. If you play a mission lineup that's absolutely crazy for high orders, high mobility, extreme console pushing/specialists requirements, MO is going to have a much harder time. If you play an ITS tournament that combines those two elements... Some scenarios where MO is great, some where MO is not, your chances are probably going to be fair for achieving success, but you need to be very good at leveraging your tools. That's tough. No Infinity army plays itself. Ironically, the more low-model-count-beatstick an army is, the more finesse it usually requires in order to do well.
     
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  5. Quehacesfede

    Quehacesfede Active Member

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    MO is great. I've lost way more than I've won but 90% of the times it's been really fun. In fact I only recall two times in which I didn't have fun playing MO, one was a game I played with an experimental list against a dude with a list tailor made to counter and annoy MO, and the other was a game which had nothing exceptional except for my legendary dismal dice rolls and my rival incredibly lucky rolls.
     
  6. Nomadimp

    Nomadimp Well-Known Member

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    Others have said it already, but it'll vary based on the missions. They really tend to do best with a 10 order list in my experience, which aren't for everyone. You need to make sure that every action you take is efficient, ideally achieving multiple goals at the same time.

    Personally, I don't think they are actually harder to play than other factions, they just require a different mentality. Most people tend to think about how to set up optimal situations for success, e.g. making sure your unit is in cover and in their best rangeband before engaging an enemy and then spend the orders to get their units into those positions. But with MO, you're trading orders for wounds, which is a resource most people are less familiar with using but they can allow you to save orders by not needing to optimize every F2F to survive.

    For example, if there's a situation where you need to cross a gap to get somewhere with a knight vs an ARO that can only do 1 wound then don't bother spending a whole order Cautious Moving and only getting half your movement, just Move-Move. Enemies will miss pretty often and you'll make an ARM roll pretty often as well (let's call it a 50% chance of taking a wound). For most units in that game those aren't odds you want to take, but here the worst case scenario is you just take a wound and keep going. You need .5 orders way more than you need .5 wounds.
     
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  7. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I have been playing MO for 4 months and I don't like MO at all, I'm at the point where I want to stop playing them, That said, They might fit your play style, I would try them and see if you like them, please! play them for yourself, I still think MO have some very good units. MO might not be for me but they might work for you
     
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  8. Context

    Context Member

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    Thanks guys for the quick replies. I think I’m just gonna take the plunge and give them a go, like people have said I can always branch out if I don’t like playing them and I won’t regret picking up the models just for painting.
     
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  9. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I would say that MO is definitely competitive BUT really not noob friendly. To success with MO in a competitive environment, you need to be really flexible in your listbuilding and in your gameplay because it is easy to get stuck without it. In comparison, ASA can stick to it's preferred battle plan and just change things here and there to get things more spicy but every ASA list you'll cross looks mostly the same. You can definitely play ASA at 180° of what you're used to face but this is not what people like to play (though, I wouldn't say it's weaker, just unsual and asking more from your brain than what a newcomer will usually be able to leverage).
    MO, to success in competition, asks you to not get stuck to the idea of fielding the most amount of HIs you can plus support. No, sometimes, the best way to win is to field a lot of OS, a TAG and/or some REMs. Because, while MO has few access to support REMs, you have a good access to attack ones and your basic hacker is cheaper than ASA one (not with the fancy things the Regular has, though) so don't be shy to field Bulleteers, Sierras and Peacemakers, they are still there and as good as everywhere.

    So yeah, try stuff, find your marks. It'll be long and hard as this will need you to get knowledge that isn't easy to get and a really opened and pragmatic mind.
     
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  10. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    For the right set of missions, where they can leverage their strengths well, they are as competitive as any Sectorial.

    But they are weaker than average in missions where they are specifically suited, especially due to a lack of options and build restrictions built into the Sectorial design.

    The recent updates reduced their "top end" power slightly in the narrow range which was "viable" before, but overall brought up the Sectorial to a place where more choices are valid.

    Overall, they are probably a tough place to start learning to play, but with good mission selection they aren't as weak as many will make them out to be. On the other hand they are 100% not capable of competing on a level playing field against broader Sectorials in some mission types.
     
  11. Reservup

    Reservup Active Member

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    Remember as well that infinity encourages proxying models. So if you love the look of the MO range, then they are a good choice for you!

    My IA army consists entirely of other models from the Yu Jing range because I don't like how the actual ones look.
     
  12. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I would say that the first rule of playing MO well is to let go of the obsession with a full HI link. A lot of missions will be easier when you field an OS link + lots of TO camo. The other issue is being stuck with an expensive HI LT. If MO had a cheaper CoC option or SWC 0 order sergeant LT option, the faction would be a lot more viable.

    One issue with MO HI is that they are just not going to be the best shooters out there. Plenty of factions are going to be able to pick better HI links, better shooters, or better CC experts. Some factions like IA can do all 3 better. Instead, you should think of what your whole team can do together. And don't forget you have some of the best Tags in the game for their cost in the MO. The HMG Seraph not only looks cool but is devastatingly effective if played well.

    MO also easily gets stuck with 10 order lists so you have to do more with less orders and thats a tough skill to learn.
     
    #12 Death, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Couldn't agree with this more. When I do play MO I never take the full HI link – its either Father knight and 4 order sergeants or just 5 OS. The Harris is a really nice place for the Hospitallers.

    I'm very curious to see what will happen with them in N4. There is just so much potential.
     
  14. Nomadimp

    Nomadimp Well-Known Member

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    Also, I'd highly recommend reading Daboarder's Primer On Massed Armor Tactics pinned in this forum and if that sounds like a playstyle that interests you then you'll be playing to MOs strengths. If that doesn't sound like something that's up your alley then you'll probably feel like the sectorial is fighting you and not letting you do the things you really want to do as well as you want to do them.
     
  15. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    as comptetive as any sectorial, if it suits you and the lineup you will do well, same for VIRD, NCA or ASA
     
  16. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    In addition to missions, I'm of the opinion that MO is more matchup dependent than most armies. I've been playing them into camospam and they just have no answer. Thats more an issue with low model armies and with camouflage than with MO in particular though.
     
  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Strange, that data from CB's truth would disagree.
     
  19. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

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    I played MO since N2 and, well, it was tough to show any good results in pretty competitive and strong meta/community (hail Russia! :D ). So it depends on your local meta/armies/skill of the players.
    To be honest, in theory-infinity MO looks (and most of the time plays) so much weaker than NCA/SAA/VIRD in competitive perspective.
     
  20. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    You do you eciu

    Im gonna be playing MO for a bit now inter is done personally. Very keen to try some new ideas.

    But you do you
     
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