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Holoprojector L2 representation on the table

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Nuada Airgetlam, Mar 12, 2020.

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  1. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    I see from the Holoecho wiki page that you can represent the other two models with either markers or actual models on the table. It also says that if you're using models, one of the three (not necessarily the actual one) has to have a "holo" marker next to it.

    Now, the rule also says that the presence of a holostate trooper is Private information. How can it be Private if I'm forced to either use obvious markers or obviously mark one of the models?

    Also, if both the actual model and the "fakes" are represented by physical models, not markers, do these need to be identical models / models of the same unit? Or can they be any models just of the correct Silhouette?
     
  2. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    The same way camo is private information—the fact that you have a trooper in that state may or may not be obvious, but your profile information won’t be immediately open information.
    Note that that bullet point:
    • This allows the player to replace the model with others from the same army possessing the same Silhouette value, and also to replace the Holoecho Markers with figures. However these must represent the same type of trooper as the model, possessing the same weapons and equipment, like the Holoecho Markers do. If it is not possible, then the player must place a Holoecho Marker beside that model to reflect its condition.
    If the player is using models instead of Holoecho Markers, then at the start of his Active Turn or if he activates the Holoecho state in his Active Turn, the player must place a Holoecho Marker next to one of the three models, but it is not compulsory that model be the real Holoprojector L2 bearer. By this way, his adversary can know he is facing a Holoprojector L2 trooper in order to be able to delay his AROs. The player can remove that Holoecho Marker at the end of his Active Turn.

    Three of the same trooper is supposed to look suspicious, I guess. *shrug*
    But a lot of the ‘Is that Holoecho or not?’ doubt only lasts until your active turn, a lot less doubt remains if you activate that trooper.
     
  3. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    My understanding is that it is private information on your list because you can opt to use a Holo 2 unit as Holo 1, and thus you wouldn't have a token next to the model. For the second part, I think they are supposed to be identical ("possessing same weapons and equipment").
     
  4. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
    Warcor

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    1.- This is private information, because during deployment, they have no differentiation from a real model, even on your first reactive turn if you go second, its not untill your first turn that you must make public the marker state of Holohecho.

    2.- They must be models of the same unit with the same equipment.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Holoecho
    This allows the player to replace the model with others from the same army possessing the same Silhouette value, and also to replace the Holoecho Markers with figures. However these must represent the same type of trooper as the model, possessing the same weapons and equipment, like the Holoecho Markers do.
     
  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    If the models aren’t identical, you have to place a Holoecho marker next to them, so you may as well just use Holoecho markers instead (assuming you’ve got Holoecho markers of the right base size...).
     
  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Do I have to have three clones of a certain model? Does the "same weapons and equipment" refer to the actual not-Holo hidden model or just "three identically equipped and armed models" of an identical Silhoutte as the true one? What does the "same type" refer to, HI / MI / LI / SK / WB / TAG / REM?

    Seems like I can hide a Kotail as three Combi Rifle Kamaels or three HMG Sukeuls, but can't use him to pose for a Sukeul + Makaul + Kamael triad, right?

    How do you use the Skill then? Moving three models / two markers and a model - and either of them can be the actual one?

    I can imagine simple shenanigans like using one of the Echos to trigger perimeter weapons like koalas (but probably not mines) or hiding a non-Holo Kotail behind small full cover like a box or something, dropping into Holo2 state and with two markers in base contact you can be either, so you've just gained LoF on both sides out of cover without moving and thus provoking ARO, because you can decide to be either of those guys when deploying Holo2.

    Are there any other known tricks? :)
     
  7. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    I think you have the right of it - a Kotail could be 3 combi Kamaels but not 3 different Kamaels without markers, as solkan notes. I think type is the general rather than specific sense. I imagine they are all doing more or less the same action, so in game, it becomes obvious they are mimics but not so obvious as to who the real one is.

    So yes, you activate and can move all 3, of which one you have determined from the outset as the real one. They will trigger deployables. And as you say, you can do that funky shift to gain LoS when you deploy Holos. This should also work if you go into Suppression - suddenly you have a good view you didn't previously have. It is also good for moving between cover in the open kind of like camo - your opponent has to choose to discover, shoot (and risk shooting the wrong target), or wait - then you have your second order to continue on your merry way.
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
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