it seems like mebbe its been long enough that we can revisit this topic, and since it looked like a convo was starting to develop in another thread i figured i may as well start a new thread. Ok so my stance is this: kotails with symbiomates in holoecho state have their symbiomates reflected on each echo. you need a kaeltar with symbiomates to do so, and you must assign the symbiomate to the kotail. this means in deployment you could have three sakiel with symbiomates standing there, or even three chaksa hmg guys. i mean, it would be obviously fake, but whatever. the order of my reasoning follows: 1: i deploy a kotail in holoecho state, lets say as three gao rael snipers 2: i deploy a kaeltar with 2 symbiomates, i give one to neema or someone, and the other to the kotail 3: according to holoecho rules: "A trooper in Holoecho state cannot replicate those Deployable weapons or pieces of Equipment represented by a Marker or model (TinBots, FastPandas, SymbioMates, Mines deployed by the Minelayer Special Skill...) the imitated model or himself could have. However, the Holoecho state replicates all the game state Markers (Prone, Unloaded...) the Holoprojector L2 bearer has." the first part says pretty clearly i cannot duplicate deployable weapons that the model could have. thats fine, neither sakiels nor kotails can have symbiomates. only kaeltar can have symbiomates. the second part states pretty clearly that all game state markers are replicated. so lets check symbiomate: "A SymbioMate is considered a Game State Marker rather than a model." it seems like the disconnect people are having is that the first thing says they cannot replicate deployable equipment and explicitly names symbiomates. that means you cannot have a kotail deploy as a kaeltar and give out symbiomates to people. thats fine, totally reasonable, it would be weird to have 6 extra symbiomate markers that the kotail gets to hand out. i think people must be missing that the symbiomate is an equipment brought by another troop that places a game state marker on the kotail. so you are replicating the game state marker, not the equipment.
oh yeah, the point of this thread was that since there isn't an actual faq about this, but people seem to still be confused, feel free to use this logic in your local meta. i talked about it with people here in philly and it seems we mostly agree this is how it should work.
Tinbots are also State Markers, but can't be copied by a Holoprojector, which kind of makes your logic fall apart. When the rules say you can't copy Symbiomates, they mean that you can't copy Symbiomates.
No. As per the text you've already quoted, SymbioMates are explicitly called out as not being replicated. Kaeltars are 100% irrelevant in this, as the SymbioMates are never placed with them to be replicated.
I just went back and started looking through the old forums cause I remember asking this when HSN3 came out. The Response we got from IJW at the time was: http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...nd-symbiomates/?do=findComment&comment=913471 Holoprojector specifically states Symbiomates/Bombs cant be duplicated (its even part of the rule that you're quoting saying it duplicates all game state markers). We have confirmation from one of the Rules translators/testers? Seems fairly clear cut to me. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Holoprojector#Holoechoes.2C_weapons.2C_Equipment_and_states edit: Whoopsy ninja'd by the man himself. Thanks @ijw
i don't see ijw as a person who always answers correctly, sorry, and until it is in the official faq, i thing this logic still stands
so yer saying that if i deploy a kotail as a kaeltar then i get to deploy extra symbiomates on other troops?
i'm just saying, there's clearly multiple ways people can interpret this, and that anyone can use this logic until there is an official faq
I our meta the consensus is, that you have to put the Symbiomate to the real model. This is in my opinion wrong, cause the symbiomates have to be assigned to a model with Symbiont Armor. They never belong to the Kaeltar
the quote you have explicitly says they can "only be assigned by its owner to those..." who owns them if not the kaeltar
I understand where your confusion comes from, I was initially uncertain myself. Try thinking about the rules this way. We can say that specific rules trump general rules right? In this case the general rule is: Holo Echoes copy ALL Gamestate markers. The Specific rule is: Holo Echoes can't copy Symbiomates (tinbots etc).
- Rule says you can't replicate Symbiomates - Replies to your post point out that the rule says you can't replicate Symbiomates You're questioning our reading comprehension?
yeh im sorry about the jab i already edited it, i just feel attacked by the pile on and i lashed out, my bad
No worries man I didn't think you had any ill will. Its easy to misinterpret tone or lash out. I've certainly done it in the past. :) I dont think anyones trying to say you're stupid/crazy/whatever. Its certainly a confusing rule at first glance. The important part is that we have a clear set of restrictions on what you can't do. These override the more general parts of the rules saying what is copied.
so the inverse of your reading could also be true, that the general rule is: holo echo does not copy deployable equipment the specific rule is: game state markers are replicated both of them list examples, followed by ellipses, which i read as intending to include all things that fall into that category. seeing as how symbiomates are a game state marker, i read this as them also being included (or at least implied by the ellipses) in the second grouping
furthermore, seeing as how symbiomate is both an equipment and a marker, i can see how it would be validly included in both sets of parentheses. which i read as saying you cannot have a kotail replicate symbiomate the equipment, but you can have kotail replicate symbiomate the marker
