Hey All, Hope your weeks have all treated you well. I've spent a lot of time looking over the Hollow Men profiles as I love the models, and wanted to see what everyone's opinion is on taking any of them in Vanilla, specifically the Spec w/BS. 1 HOLLOW MEN (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) 0 SWC | 30 Points I've enjoyed looking at the Harris, and can see taking that in some (... some) JCT themed lists - but I am intrigued about this super jumping button pusher (SJBP for short, of course). Let me know if you have any experience on running them solo, or what your thoughts are on him/her/it~!
Hollow Men are tough, fast and cheap. This is always useful! They lack BS mods or the ability to ignore them, so they aren't awesome at pure gunfighting, but for the cost they're highly respectable and they can get into odd angles with their 6-2 super jump to flank enemy troops which works great. I think the Spitfire, Missile Launcher and Boarding Shotgun are the most immediately useful profiles. The Shotgun is great for games where you need fast specialists, it's awesome for Frostbyte for example!
I think the Spitfire, MR and Tinbot AHD are the 3 best Vanilla profiles. You don't really need a 6-2 Move Specialist with only a BSG in Vanilla: the Riot Grrl is a better HI Specialist (for the same cost) and Vanilla has better 'fast' Specialists and 'fast' Shotguns (Zondnaughts, Infiltrators, AD or Lunokhods all compete in different ways). The Spitfire gives you a solid fast striker that's shock immune. It directly competes with Tsyklons but trades defensive capabilities (and the ability to be buffed) for more direct striking power (and higher SWC). The MR is a fast 0SWC anti-armour piece (when paired with a Hacker) and a decent 0 SWC attacking Datatracker. The AHD is a fast specialist, but the AHD opens up a lot of interesting uses for the 2" Move that the BSG lacks. Alot of the time you'll be Move-Moving the BSG which really doesn't leverage Hollowmen's strengths. Whether this is worth 7pts will depend on whether you need/want an AHD in your list. From a hacking POV there's a fair amount of value in BTS6 2STR with Tinbot for a non-marker state AHD: fuck Maestro though, that program is stupid.
I don't see why I'd take the Hollowmen over the Grrls SO, BSG and ML in Vanilla. Frenzy is a consideration but not one I think outways the advantages those profiles have over the Hollowmen. I think Frostbyte is an ideal scenario for the AHD Hollowman and MR Hollowman as a 1/2 combo pushing into the midfield. Admittedly Frostbyte is weird because it explicitly rewards HI rather than the alternatives I'd normally use, so the BSG SO starts making a lot more sense (although I'd probably prefer the Feel SO for sweet sweet Blitzen AROs).
the multi+pitcher is also a great solo piece, half decent late game/secondary assault piece, and can get repeaters in hard to reach places real quick.
Well, the real consideration in Vanilla is Frenzy for a Spitfire or ML, because without cover, they're just so much less effective. That's a big concern, and why players like @ijw have previously said they use the Grenzer ML in that role. The Grenzer swaps Frenzy for only 1 W, the Hollow Man swaps Frenzy for MSV1, and both have notably worse dodges, but it's definitely a fair tactical choice. And an ARM 4 multi wound guy with a ML and a DTW is always a pain to deal with! Also I think it's worth considering Engineer vs Doctor. I think Nomads in general get more out of their Engineers than Doctors (Clockmaker!) so it's a small but relevant consideration.
Generally I prefer the AHD to the SO. You are vulnerable to killer hackers, but the tinbot helps, and you can fulfill more objectives. The biggest trade off is losing the chain colt. Sometimes being able to force trading hits especially when you're two wounds is a big deal. As for @inane.imp disparaging most the hollowmen in vanilla it's not a simple this is better for the cost comparison. Hollowmen have super jump and valor, grrls dont. Sometimes you don't want your guy to bug out, the men get to choose. Super jump also can be used to get prime unexpected angles, even more so if you have a lot of vertical terrain. Depending on how your meta plays terrain they also can avoid things like water or rough terrain on occasions. (Our meta generally plays terrain is as tall as it's highest point, you suffer penalties if you begin in it or move into/through it, so you can jump over it if it's a small patch, but you suffer its big and you will end in it.)
Yeah bums me out the Spec Op doesn't have a Chain Colt (especially because it seems to be paying for it!) The Assault HD is really nice, especially as it is so multi-capable against any hackable target. I like the MULTI Rifle + Pitcher too, kind of feel like that has a lot of potential but I dunno how much in Vanilla, where Repeaters and such are so available. THe 6-2 and Super Jump is very strong, it's way more mobile than you think and intervening terrain is just a breeze. If you can use it to flank enemy troops, which you can pretty easily, the HM can easily mop up even stuff with BS mods without much issue.