1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Highly Classified Opinions?

Discussion in 'ITS' started by RogueJello, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    422
    Just went to a tournament with Highly Classified and I found it frustrating for a couple of reasons. I'm wonder what other people think of it.

    Pros:
    1) Simple mission, which was good for the newer members of the community
    2) Button pushing light
    3) Use of cards gives easy reference

    Cons:
    1) Need multiple specialists and other troops, leading to few options for list creation.
    2) Hard to complete games, since it rewards large order pools
    3) Seems more random than other missions: card selection, with die rolls to complete. Unlike a lot of systems in Infinity it's not possible to influence these.

    In my particular case I was running a 15 order NCA list, my opponent was running Yu Jing with a ton of impetus orders and two combat groups. We managed to complete two turns only because I did a speed run for my 2nd turn, and blew through everything. Probably resulted in some sloppy play on my part, and since the other guy was less experienced I probably could have explained things better as we went, but did not because of time.

    FWIW, I think this is fine for casual play, since the time problem is not there, and you could build a list AFTER picking the classifieds.

    What's other people's opinions of this mission?
     
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    It sounds like you guys picked your lists first, then drew the classifieds. You're supposed to do it the other way around you sort out all the classifieds then choose your list that can best handle it.
     
  3. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    422
    This was a two list tournament, and I've never been to a tournament that let you pick your lists AFTER you picked the classifieds.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Last I heard the order for ITS was
    1. Determine mission
    2. State your faction/sectorial
    3. Roll for classifieds
    4. Pick list
    5. Roll for Initiative
    6. Deploy
    7. Play
     
    ZlaKhon, Hecaton and East of Irem like this.
  5. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    933
    Likes Received:
    944
    I don't know if I like or hate HQ.
    As a further Cons I would say, that some faction have general weaknesses in this format. And for a tournament, you have normally to take one special list for this mission. (See common answers in IP18 battle reports)
    Sometimes I think the TO's chose this Mission to don' t let the player optimize their lists for the mission.
    In casual play, I like the Mission, cause you don't have to bother about the other missions. And that the goals are different is fun too.
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    3,403
    Likes Received:
    6,824
    See ITS p8, Army Lists:

    'CHOOSING AN ARMY LIST TO USE

    Players choose which of their Army Lists to use in a Tournament Round at the beginning of that Round, after they have been informed of who their opponent is, what their Classified Objectives are, what faction they face, and which table they will be using.'

    My emphasis. That's always been the case, since Classifieds were added to the game.
     
    ZlaKhon, AngryPanda, xagroth and 3 others like this.
  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    367
    usually, i have 1 list for a set of mission and 1 list for the other mission so there is not a big difference between picking the list before or after the classified as i pick 1 list out of 1 list i have prepared.

    Sometime you might even see player pick a list, roll initiative, then remember to draw their classified. But the correct way is to announce your faction, pick classifieds, then pick the list and make your roll.
     
  8. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    422
    I think we're having a disagreement about the use of the word "pick", which I am using to mean the complete design of a list of models, rather than your use of "picking" from one of two lists that have already been created ahead of the tournament, and submitted to the TO. In this case we had two lists designed before the tournament, and I designed on list specifically for Highly Classified before the tournament.

    In casual play it's very possible to "pick" an army list that it optimized for the classifieds selected, AFTER selection, while during a tournament you're forced to design a list that covers as many options as possible.

    The new classifieds have also made this mission more difficult because it has increased the requirements. In ITS9, there was a requirement for a Vet/Elite or CoC trouper for one mission, so you could effectively ignore it. There are now three. In addition there have been requirements for bringing a MI/HI, Visor/Sensor, and a Close Combat profile. So to be able to cover all bases you're going to need several dedicated profiles:

    ITS10 Highly Classified requirements (Newly added requirements italized)
    Hacker
    D-Charges
    Doctor/Paramedic
    FO/Spotlight program
    Engineer
    Close Combat expert
    Vet/Elite/CoC
    MI/HI
    Visor/Sensor


    Now it's very possible to double up on some of these, you're still going to need 3-5 models dedicated to just doing classifieds. Some of these are probably things you were going to bring anyway, such as FO, Paramedics, or Hackers. Further you're going to want a big order pool, since most of the missions are going to require several orders, and often have 50-60% chance of success, due to dice rolls. Big order pools on both sides of the table are difficult in a timed event.

    Factions, such as Nomads, who have models that have multiple skills, like Zoe/Pi-Well do better with this mission. CA with Doctor Worm, Aleph with Sophotects, etc. Others, like PanO, Yu Jing, who have almost doubled up skills are going to need almost all 9 profiles. Now I get that all factions have weaknesses, and so that doesn't bother me much.

    What might make this mission more interesting is if the TO were to pick the Classifieds BEFORE the tournament. It would allow for better tuned lists, and the possibility to not build a list just for this mission. It would also reduce some of the luck involved, because all tables would be playing with the same easy/difficult classifieds. Since the classifieds are open information there is nothing lost in this approach, and I don't think it adds a lot of burden on the TO. The hidden secondary objective would still be done as private information.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    I think you're blowing things out of proportions, alot.


    [​IMG] Yu Jing
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] TIGER SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    0.5 SWC | 90 Points

    I've covered every single possible option for 90pts and 0.5 SWC just using generic support options and a cheap ass drop troop. You don't actually need a close combat trooper to do Predator either, you just need to move into base to base with Unconcious enemies and finish them off after you shoot them with a shotgun or something.

    Realistically entering Highly Classified with the mindset of I MUST DO EVERY OBJECTIVE IT IS IMPERATIVE I TICK ALL THE BOXES is a trap and a failed mindset.

    You don't need to DO ALL THE MISSIONS, you just need to do one more than your opponent.

    If there's a stupid mission on the table, like Kidnapping, fuck that mission. Don't do it. Instead, just focus a minimal effort on not letting your opponent kidnap your HVT easily.

    Denying your opponent the ability to complete objectives is just as important as completing objectives yourself.
     
    xagroth, Lesh', Karmano and 1 other person like this.
  10. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    422
    With about 3-5 profiles (5 in your case) as I stated above. Further you didn't fill out the entire order pool, but I'm guessing it's going to be order spam, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

    I don't believe that's correct, because the next sentence is:
    Performing a Coup de Grâce doesn’t count towards this objective.

    A Coup de Grace would appear to be exactly what you're describing, unless there's some technically that allows you to make an attack on an unconcious enemy that isn't a Coup de Grace.

    So I think you're not reading very carefully.
     
  11. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    688
    Highly Classified was one of the best missions with the old classified deck, but with the new highly random classifieds It's probably the worst, right after Decapitation.
     
    xagroth and RogueJello like this.
  12. Diphoration

    Diphoration Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    6
    I have played the new Highly Classified four times now and I found the mission to be very fun.

    Good mix of doing objectives and hunting specific targets to prevent your opponent from doing objectives.
     
  13. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    367
    yes there is, you can use the CC Attack skill, just like how going unconscious doesn't prevent the opponent from making additional BS Attacks.

    edit: although it is far from being guaranteed. you could wiff your CC, or the KO guy can pass the ARM check.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  14. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    60
    Mayacast had a recent episode going over some models that can cover multiple classifieds. With Ariadna, the hardest part is taking the Wardriver to cover hacking.
    But if you aren’t taking any veteran, elite, or special characters and no HI/MI then you’ve got a pretty unique list to begin with. I love the new deck because I can cover 90% of the non-hacking classifieds just with the models in my list.
     
  15. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    452
    I have yet to try the new highly classified mission but before it was easily one of my favorites.
    Nothing like dropping a Fiday next to their hacker and shutting off most of there options.

    It also let me go all out offensive with less punishment for it.
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,119
    Likes Received:
    3,374
    My opinion for 'fixing' Highly Classified (now we have the new deck) is to allow both players to choose the 2 Main classifieds (the Secondary classified is drawn at random from the remainder of the deck as is normal). All four Main classifieds are revealed simultaneously. If you get two of the same classified (ie both players choose Data Scan) then you must do the Standard version AND the Extreme Version (these count as separate classifieds and must be fulfilled independently ie. in one order your Hacker performs a WIP roll vs an enemy model and in a second order they perform a WIP-3 roll vs an enemy model).

    Extreme Highly Classified is not a thing.

    This cuts down on the randomness of mission, and introduces decisions about what classifieds you plan to choose and consequently build your list(s) around.
     
    xagroth and Icchan like this.
  17. BLOODGOD

    BLOODGOD Vampire Hunter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    79
    I think Highly Classified is a crap tournament mission and has been since its inception. It defeats the purpose of everyone playing the same mission, since each table is essentially playing a different one. The explosion of classified types in the new deck only makes that worse. It also penalizes (although the new deck does ameliorate this problem a bit) several factions who struggle with certain classifieds or have a single option to accomplish one of them. I don't enjoy jumping Traktor Muls off buildings and hoping to fail the first save and make the second or third.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,926
    Likes Received:
    2,769
    You think this is bad, the Portland satellite has HC with Extreme Mode.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  19. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    477
    I don't know that a fix is necessary BUT that's with the assumption that a TO is selecting missions responsibly. I think having random 4 classifieds makes factions build really different lists than they normally would, and that's a good thing (IMO) when the other 2 or 3 missions of the tournament have relatively similar list construction goals so you can cover the bases for those missions in one list and HC in another.

    Having said that, if the other 2 or 3 missions in the tournament require radically different lists, HC as is can be a nightmare.

    I would agree that extreme HC probably doesn't play well enough for non-casual tournies.
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,119
    Likes Received:
    3,374
    I don't think my 'fix' would ultimately change that much. You will still need a different list, but it'll be more manageable in how different.