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Hidden Deployment + Tac Awareness

Discussion in 'Rules' started by RobertShepherd, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Does a Cutter or Sphinx that begins their turn (and thus order phase) in hidden deployment generate their Tactical Awareness order?
     
  2. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Note that there is a pretty major wording difference between the English and Spanish versions of the Hidden Deployment rule that we need to get addressed.

    The Spanish rule says that a Hidden Deployed unit 'saves it's order for later'.
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    What’s the functional difference, though? In both languages, the unit generates it’s Order at the normal time (privately), and is the only trooper who can use the Order.
     
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's how you are interpreting those (and for what it's worth, how I have been playing it for years).

    But there is a large RAW difference between "generating an order" and "It's order is saved for later."

    I'm more about making the various languages say the same thing.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Under the current rules, there really aren't that big of a difference between the two. Not so much that it matters. The big issue is whether you're able to use Tactical Awareness since you aren't able to follow all of the skill's rules.
     
  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Sarcastically, you put the Irregular Order marker next to the TAG in the army transport off the table...
     
  9. Raising

    Raising Member

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    Deleted

    Go to the other thread.
     
    #10 Raising, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  10. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    only that in the english version, the hidden deployed doesn't generate its order but a new one when he appears. That needs to be clarified. Up until now, the hidden deployed was "not there" and counted as not in the game. For example, a hidden deployed lieutenant is "not deployed" for the LOL rule, so I think this should be addressed the same way as with hidden deployed lieutenants: that irregular order is not generated because the miniature is not deployed, and when it gets "the order" (be it the original, or a different/new one), is not when tactical awareness works, so it has no access to that extra irregular order
     
  11. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Once again, this is wrong. There are no special order generated by miniature in hidden deployement. They generate their regular/irregular order as usual, it is just not added to the pool and can only be used with specific condition.
     
    ijw likes this.
  12. Raising

    Raising Member

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    Why you say that @Armihaul ?

    Extracted from hidden deployment

    "As long as they remain in the Hidden Deployment state, troopers do not add their Order to the Order Pool, but instead generate an Order they may only use themselves"
     
    ijw likes this.
  13. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    This is completely false. See the actual rules text quoted by Raisings, that had already been quoted in the previous threads.
     
  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    As I explained in the other threads (and ninjaed by Raising), in the english version they "do not add their order to the order pool, but instead they generate an Order they may only use themselves" (emphasis not mine). That is at least what the wiki says. They generate an order, not their order, neither their order is saved for later (as says in the spanish wiki).

    Maybe is my english but, if they don't add their order, and later they generate an order, why the one "generated" is the one not added?
     
  15. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    maybe I should clarify that I mean that the hidden deployed don't generate their order when everybody else does, but later? they still don't add their order in the moment tactical awareness takes part, and that quote from the wiki is exactly saying that
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    With all possible respect, it's your English.

    Nothing in the rule says the order they generate is any different than their normal Regular/Irregular Order, and nothing says that it's generated at a later stage.

    The use of "an order" reflects the fact that different Troopers can generate different types of Orders.
     
  17. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    To be blunt, it's your English.

    At no point do the rules say that the trooper generates an Order 'later', or that it isn't a Regular/Irregular Order. The only restriction is that it isn't added to the Order Pool, and can't be used by anyone else. That doesn't stop it being a Regular/Irregular order, and doesn't stop it being generated (privately) during the Order count step of the Tactical Phase - the only time that Orders are generated.

    Yes they do. There is no 'later'.
     
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  18. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    They don't add their order. That is clearly stated. That "later" is my way of saying "during the game when you want to acticate it". And at that moment they "generate" (stated again in the wiki) an order that cannot be used by anyone else or for other uses, so is a bit far from its regular one. I cannot see how is the same order. Also, in the spanish version it is stated that the order it is "saved for later", something that is lacking the english one. I can understand that this could be a translation problem, but at the moment they don't say the same.

    Also, we have that a hidden deployed lieutenant counts as not deployed, so it activates LOL, I don't get why this case should work differently
     
  19. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Edit: sorry, wrong rule.

    I meant to say, AD works exactly like that, so there is a precedence for models not on the table generating their own order only for themselves instead of adding it to the order pool.

    In Spanish, the "saved for later" part might refer to the point when the unit is revealed, since it can't use their own order before that anyway.
     
    #20 Knauf, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019