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Help with Seeds

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by ogrekin, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. ogrekin

    ogrekin Vet. Kazak
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    :confused: Fellow gamers, I need your help.

    I am having a massive brain fart as to how troopers work when they start as seeds.
    It seems that the more I read the less I understand.

    Please can you explain to me in simple terms. Plus a couple of example interactions.
    (I am particularly interested in the Cadmus and what options I have when someone approaches/ARO options)

    Many thanks.
     
  2. Duront

    Duront Active Member

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    A far as I understand you are start camo'ed until you are discovered and you can only do the following skills:

    ARO: hatch (counts as a dodge), chest mine
    ACTIVE: autohatch(no roll and counts as a move skill), chest mine

    when you either hatch or autohatch you place next to the seed embryo marker and switch to the developed profile

    Cadmus are the same with only difference being decoy instead of camoflauge but the skill limitations are the same
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    @Duront is right, I'd just add a few things;

    - Seeds are S0, so they're instantly recognizable from mines or other troopers under Camo. However there is nothing in the rules that forbids you from deploying your Seed-Soldiers Prone...
    - Hatch can be declared against enemies activating in Seed's Zone of Control, you don't have to wait for an attack or LoF.
    - When using either Hatch or Autohatch you replace the marker with your trooper, not placing it next to that marker.
     
  4. SoEinBasti

    SoEinBasti ShasBasti

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    I would like to add some more things:

    - You can choose to autohatch your seeds before the order count of your second turn. This way you can place a S2 model with lof to a enemy without generating an ARO.
    - Cadmus does not have limited camo like the seeds
    - If you have a cadmus killer hacker, you have to tell your opponent that it is a killer hacker, but he is not hackable until you hatch (both infos can be found in the new FAQ)
     
    Azuset likes this.
  5. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    Another pointer, mostly for cadmus
    • When deployed it's S0, but when hatching it becomes S2 which means its S2 for entire order.
    • Hatch is a Movement skill, which lets you shoot as second half of order. You can only use your Seed weapons (Chest mines for cadmus)
    • If the Seed is deployed prone and you hatch it stays prone, avoiding the S2 profile.
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    If you Hatch* Autohatch during an Order, you can only use the weapons on the hatched profile in that Order.

    *Hatch is only in ARO.
     
    #6 ijw, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  7. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    My LGS has been playing it with the idea of move(hatch) + attack would replace the profile at the end of the order. So you can use the chest mines on the order in question. On subsequent orders you get access to the new profiles weapons because the action resolved at the end turn. The silhouettes size change was a discussion point some of us disagreed on, but went with the S2 visible during entire order because it would act like camo where you revealed yourself for the entire order.

    Is there a formal point on this you can link to in a faq\wiki. The rules we've been using are more in line to the other existing rules (camo, symbiot armour) than what you are saying.
     
    #7 Cannon Fodder, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  8. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    From the Wiki:
    • Regarding Autohatch, the cancellation of Seed-Embryo state is applied to the whole declared Order. So, if a trooper in Seed-Embryo state declares an Autohatch + Move Order, her Developed Form Troop Profile will be applied for the whole Order.
    • Regarding Hatch, cancellation of the Seed-Embryo state is applied in the Conclusion of the Order, applying the Developed Form Troop Profile in subsequent Orders.
    Emphasis mine.
     
    ijw likes this.
  9. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    @ijw Any chance we can get this language on the "Seed-Embryo skill" page as well? Currently, it's only in the cancellation list of the Seed-Embryo state.
     
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  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I can, but it's the same as all other situations where you're declaring a profile change with the first Skill of the Order.
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I've added the relevant Cancellation clauses below the two hatching Skills.
     
  12. Baszoo

    Baszoo New Member

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    If I have understood this correctly I can drop a cadmus and "autohatch" it the first turn of a game with the cost of the first half of the order. Then Use the second short skill for Morpho-scan/shoot or move? This also applies to Seed soldiers right?

    As a rookie I got the impression that I couldnt hatch Seed embryos until turn two for some reason.
     
  13. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    @ijw Thanks for the updated links. Now I can use it to pass to my LGS.
     
  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    You can do so without a problem. When your second or third turn begins you can simply choose to cancel any of your remaining troopers' Seed-Embryo state. It's actually a nice tactic; you can have Seed Soldiers planted in good positions behind barriers and other low cover, safe due to seeds being S0, and then have them suddenly appear without activating them - and so without provoking any AROs. But you definitely can activate them earlier if you want.
     
  15. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I already thought the Cadmus was strong before hand, but this makes it even better. I'd rather have the boarding shotgun offensively instead of chest mines.