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help from friends - going second how to?

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by siri, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Hi Triads!

    i have been a regular problem: most of the time i got beaten in the first turn!

    normally i use a sniper to cover a long corridor but most of the time i have been taken out by: Kamau Sniper, Khawarij MSV2 with smoke trick ( sometimes just volume of fire in fireteam) and today was a Maghariba.

    today i had played with ISS. Luckily i dent two crits, one with a lu duan, the other with a Rui Shi. He came from my left flank and always find a position to shot me due to size or angle.
    i thought be hidden was the best, and this is another problem i have with fireteams: i normally deploy them in a bad position, mostly in line so he came and barbecued me.

    Last game i played against a Vird list with Tohaa again i hid because of the Kamau and missile launcher fireteam. He took his Buleteer ( i think) and came hunting!

    Against Ramah fireteam only when i put a two Kiel Saan + Helot i could hold a advance when my adversary spend some orders with move+discover. And the Kiel Saan could hold some shots in cover.

    so i know i have a HUGE problem with my ARO and deployment!

    i´m trying to search the bromad in November where they made a deployment proposition with just a turn one playing and discussion, but i couldn´t find the batreps and discussions.

    When i play haqqislam i usually got no problem from this. Generally i use some Camo, at least a Assault hacker camo or TO and some mines to hold the advance from fireteams or HI/TAGS.
    1- what is our response to it with Tohaa and Spiral corps in a lesser degree? VIRD and/or TAG/HI Rambo?
    i want to play this year with spiral corps and tohaa, putting my YJ to rest a little.

    2 - how you normally deploy your triads? ( i know its depends of tables, but a general idea)
    3 - TOHAA and Spiral AROS. What you use?

    thanks in advance
     
  2. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    How many troopers do you leave up to ARO?

    Do you use a lot of midfields?

    The reactive turn's purpose is to slow down your opponent. You want to have very few direct ARO pieces, preferably with Symbiomates and don't be scared to duck back into full cover. You want to litter the board with cheap chaff and markers, they're some of the most effective order sponges.
     
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  3. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Can you give me a idea of how you use in your ARO and midfield protection ?

    It's spiral I had use minelayer and Kiutan to put pressure
     
  4. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    A while ago i wrote up a guide for deploying swarm lists when yer goong second. While nlt everything in there is useful for everyone, i think it could be helpful for you with deploying tohaa in general.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/deploying-swarm-on-sparse-tables.34657/

    Some of the basic things (if thats too long a read) are to use kaauri sentinels, chaksa baggage, kriigel, and makauls as aro pieces instead of snipers. The idea behind that is that when you kill someone (or isolate with kriigel) with a short range aro piece, your opponent has probably spent at least 2-3 orders just getting that unit into position. Whereas a sniper is going to be dealt with in at most 3 orders by most people, and the orders spent doing that usually also help set up more kills for your opponent. Most people bring things to deal with long range aro as well, so by not bringing snipers you are saving yourself points while turning some of your opponents models into wasted points. Getting long winded again, sorry. I hope this is helpful tho
     
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  5. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I'll be reading and studying it.
    Thanks a lot for the help
     
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  6. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    In Tohaa, you want maybe one or two direct ARO pieces, generally the Sukeul missile or Gao-Rael sniper. Put these on the most important lines of the table, in places where it would take several orders for your enemy to engage you in their good range (this means the 32-40 band for the missile and the 32-48 band for the sniper.) Additionally, you don't want these positions on top of buildings covering multiple lines / all lines unless your opponent has very poor tools for dealing with them.

    As a next point here, Symbiomates are nerfed but you may consider one Kaeltar to buff either of these pieces. The mate on average will keep you alive for one more order than it would otherwise -- ARM12 in cover is still pretty immortal against most weapons, and one of the reasons mates and symbiont armor are so strong when combined together are the high odds that you end up winning one of the f2f rolls or delaying long enough your opponent can't commit any more orders to kill you.

    Another ARO to keep in mind is the Makaul. Makaul Eclipse Smoke dodge is bread and butter in Tohaa because the survivability it gives you is so high. B2 on 16s is as good as just about any ARO in the game in terms of keeping you alive. Also remember you can instead opt to throw smoke at another position and sacrifice your Makaul to instead cut off another line of sight that could potentially be more deadly. Makauls are the ultimate corner guard because they have Eclipse for long ranges and Flamethrowers close up.

    Midfield for Tohaa is the Liberto first and foremost. No reason this piece shouldn't be in almost every list. I'm very partial to the Clipso BSG just because it can be so game-ending in ARO and used aggressively too -- I'm very convinced there's a good reason that it has the SWC tax from the nullifier, because otherwise it would be the cheapest TO BSG and every list would consider one.

    Jaan Staar/Kiuutan/Grief Operator round out the midfield. An ignored Impersonator is a deadly Impersonator. I personally think adding Jaan to vanilla Tohaa was a serious design mistake because he does a lot of what the Kiuutan profiles not available in vanilla did (minus the E/Mauler).

    As for deploying the midfield, pick positions that are annoying. Force the enemy to come around walls and corners to where you are. You don't really want to be exposed -- and remember that while sensor does reveal camo pieces, orders being spent on sensor are orders being spent not killing you or doing objectives.
     
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