1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Heckler or Zero

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by wildchevy, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. wildchevy

    wildchevy Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    801
    I've been working at relearning how to play vanilla nomads and there's a spot in my list for either a Heckler or a Zero. Been debating which one to take.

    Zero has useful kit, button pusher, and access to mines. Cons: anyone who has played against Nomads seem to be able to guess who that camo token is.

    Hecklers have access to jammer, fast panda, and KHD. Cons: less infiltration on deployment and limited camo. I've also had no success with being able to Jam like I can in Haqq.


    Which would you take and what have you had the most success with?
     
  2. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    726
    The Zero is a better active button pusher, the Heckler is a better reactive speedbump to slow down your opponent attacking you. Though each can do the other job in a pinch. It depends which of those you need more of.
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    I find it depends on the rest of the list.

    Moran, Zero Minelayer and Heckler Jammer all do very a similar role (speed bump) very slightly differently. Moran's do best if you have a strong hacking game that can exploit the Repeater, they also provide a specialist option (something neither of the two other speed bump units do). Zeroes do best if you have other infiltration units to hide with shell games, or if you want Mines forward to defend midfield objectives. Heckler Jammers do better stoping a Rambo pushing through the midfield, but a worse job of contesting objectives (except in Rescue, where they're disgusting), they also provide a better attack option than a Zero and can provide good support to hackers, importantly (unlike the other two) they're SWC free.

    A decent option is a Zero EMauler + Libertos SMG. If you don't spend the Irregular order on the Libertos then this is basically indistinguishable from a Bandit and a Heckler (provided you have enough other 'holes' in your list).

    Zero KHDs are better button pushers and are cheap enough that you can leave them on cheerleading duties until you need to use them to punish an Enemy hacker using your repeaters: they also make decent speed bumps with their Mines. Whereas Heckler KHDs are great counter attack units where they can leverage their Assault Pistol and/or Marker state to punish anything that comes into the midfield. Losing real mines for Cybermines is the biggest pity.

    I'd probably run this as my midfield if points and SWC where no issue. It gives you a great mix of different tools.

    Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    HECKLER Combi Rifle, Jammer, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    BANDIT Boarding Shotgun, E/Mauler / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 26)
    ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)

    1.5 SWC | 102 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    xagroth and wildchevy like this.
  4. KoenigLeberwurstIII

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    22
    I usually prefered a Zero khd and another zondmate over a Heckler khd, but my meta gets heavier on HI links lately so the cybermines made me rethink that. For me it worked great to put a cybermine around the corner of a HI Link and then force them to react against the assault pistol (which is generally not to be underestimated with bs12 and mimetism).

    For the jammer profile i usually just try to guess where the tag or HI link will walk upfields and try to hide them within 8'' of another camo marker, so that they mistake it for a mine of a minelayer zero. If the intended jamming target takes another path, I usually wait for my active turn to bring them in my hacking zone with the hecklers fastpanda.

    E/Marat profile works similiar as the jammer, just that he has to sacrife himself for his trick. I usually go for it when a tag or HI gets to close to something valuable or when i can put the template over 3+ of a HI link. He never got a second chance so far however, since he goes done in their aros like nothing.

    Beeing a more competent shot, the heckler is usually more usefull in the midfield anyways and I prefer him over a Zero khd usually now. Especially the KHD one. The jammer Heckler gets his chance in the TAG missions to guard something against a TAG and the RedFury profile is sometimes on board when I need a cheap second attack piece. Zero FO still stays my favorite objective grabber.
     
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    I, oddly, dislike the Zero FO as an objective grabber. The KHD opens up too many classifieds: the fact that their classifieds are non-LOF make them much easier to do. There's also quite a few missions where they get B2 +3WIP on pushing buttons.

    I'm more likely to take 2 x Zero KHDs than a KHD + FO.

    I do need to take the Heckler KHD more, but that 3pts is a WarCor, Zondbot, an ADHL+Panzerfaust for a Jaguar or 50% of a Morlock. It's very useful.
     
    xagroth and Hachiman Taro like this.
  6. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    335
    I gave up on the Zero KHD. Other than killing the occasional EVO hacker he just isn't very successful. Also, a Zero's only defense (other than marker state) is being holed up somewhere inconvenient, so being hackable often means he'll be splitched in half an order by a professional who otherwise wouldn't have time to root him out.

    The FO is better at -2 points plus actual added defense with the flash pulse.
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,212
    BTS3 isn't much of a difference in hacking potential particularly not vs a Red Rum. The ease with which the Zero can recamo is better defence.

    I also generally use my Zero KHD watching a short firelane that I can move forward from reasonably easily rather than 'somewhere inconvenient'. This allows them to act as part of my midfield defence. So often they die placing a Mine: I find this more effective than a Flashpulse at delaying Rambos *looks meaningfully at McMurder*

    It's interesting, but your arguments are exactly why I prefer an FO Bandit over a KHD Bandit as a back-up Specialist. So I can see your point, it's just not my experience with Zeroes.
     
    wildchevy likes this.
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    264
    This is main reason why I run the heckler in vanilla and the second is often the jammer. The KHD heckler free'd up an AVA on my zeros which opens a lot of flexibility whether thats as disposable button pushers with the FO, or finally being able to use the minelayer profile.

    Also Cybermask + assault pistol tends to make the heckler an absolutely lethal midfield hunter.
     
    wildchevy and inane.imp like this.
  9. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    674
    Only reason I see to use a Heckler instead of a Zero is in missions with exclusion zones or if you really want to leverage that Red Fury or Jammer.
     
  10. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    1,027
    First thing : zero are only AVA 2. So often it's not "Heckler or Zero" but 2 Zero and 1 or 2 heckler to complete the list

    longer analysis :

    Zero minelayer : no equivalent on the heckler side but taking a zero minelayer will often result in needing a heckler KHD to have 2 camoed specialist

    Zero FO : cheap, better than the Heckler KHD as a button pusher (because cheaper) but I usually prefer the zero KHD because many mission give hacker a bonus to push button

    Zero KHD : cheaper than the heckler equivalent, antipersonnel mine so can be coordinated with other mine owner (puppetmaster, other zero) to lay so mine. Choice between Zero KHD and Heckler KHD will depend of me needing a zero minelayer or not

    Heckler Boarding/Emarat : fantastic cheap offensive piece. Can take down TAG or HI link very efficiently, good to stop a rambo in ARO (if well placed)

    Heckler red fury : cheaper competition to the prowler spitfire. Plus : cheaper point and SWC, Minus : less resilient, no recamo, FD lvl 1 vs infiltration. Very good secondary offensive piece when not enough point/SWC for a prowler

    Heckler KHD : 3 points more than the zero, gain 1 BS + different mine + Assault Pistol, loose recamo and infiltration (vs FD lvl1). Better secondary offensive piece, worst button pusher

    Heckler jammer : never tried, don't like B1 weapon in a non-specialist troops (to random in active, to high cost troop to risk in ARO)

    This will be my base list for button pushing :
    Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)

    1 SWC | 105 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Or if I want some more mid field defense (like in supplies) :
    Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]6
    HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    HECKLER Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Cybermines / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)

    1.5 SWC | 127 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #10 Arkhos94, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    wildchevy, inane.imp and xagroth like this.