Healing vs unopposed attack

There is no "before" or "after" it resolves all at once. You have a net-zero of Wound change on the originally unconscious trooper.

 

What if the unconcious trooper had NWI (he was shot with Shock and had 2W initally), can he now change Unconcious->NWI ?

 

That is an excellent question. Personally i think the answer would be no, since as mentioned already the net result of the order was 0 Wounds. Trooper was unconscious, still is unconscious, and doesn't wake up for part of the order just to take a Wound again. They would need to be healed one, become conscious, and then take a hit in a following order to then activate NWI.

 

I'm with mac thet dont fo UO abd down nor do they go down and up.

The net is that there is no change. The neg and post cancel before they even get to the trooper

 

Make it Avi healing herself out of NWI and she takes a Shock hit. By your logic the wounds would cancel each other out and the effects of Shock would not be applied. Whereas by the alternative logic, she'd get take a net of 0 wounds, be affected by Shock and go to Dead.

I think it's the second and it counts as a state change for the purposes of Dogged / NWI.

 

Seems we really do need a big FAQ regarding whole "inflicting wounds" issues (DATATRACKER, shock, prothein eating someone while eating a wound etc.).

 

pretty sure its been discussed and the answer is nope no net change means nothing happens, no step down or up.

its the only internal consistent method that doessnt start asking "what happens first" Because there are no rules for gaining wounds from dead, only for losing, so if the step down is resolved first the step up cant happen. which we know is inccorrect

 

Yeah, and reading the Shock Ammo: it's not taking a Wound that triggers Shock, it's failing the ARM roll. So Avi would die in both interpretations. Seems sorted.

 

shes not supposed to die, they are supposed to cancel out such that neither occurs

 

She dies. The 'Dead' effect of Shock is entirely separate to the 'takes a Wound' effect of Shock. Moreover the Red Box would also apply: so she wouldn't be able to benefit from the effects of NWI.

Blue text isn't applied due to 'net 0 wounds'. Red text would still happen.

Effects

• Each ARM Roll failed against Shock Special Ammunition causes the target to lose one point from his Wounds/STR Attribute.
• If the target has a Wounds Attribute of 1 on his profile and fails an ARM Roll against Shock Special Ammunition, then he enters the Dead state directly, bypassing the Unconscious state.
• This specific special effect does not apply to:
  • Units whose Wounds Attribute is higher than 1 on their profile (such as Heavy Infantry).
  • Troopers who, during the course of the game, increased their Wounds Attribute above 1.
  • Units with a Structure (STR) Attribute instead of a Wounds Attribute, such as Remotes, TAGs, Vehicles, etc. Against these, Shock Special Ammunition has the same effects as Normal Ammunition.

IMPORTANT!
Shock Special Ammunition cancels the effects of the target's Special Skills Valor L2: Dogged and Valor L3: No Wound Incapacitation. Shock Special Ammunition also cancels the effects of the SpawnEmbryo part of the Shasvastii Special Skill.

 

So if I'm on NWI state and get a Shock impact I save the ARM roll against... I go Unconscious? XD

 

No. If you are in the NWI state and you take a Shock impact which you fail the ARM roll against you go Dead. Even if you don't take a wound. As per this text:

• If the target has a Wounds Attribute of 1 on his profile and fails an ARM Roll against Shock Special Ammunition, then he enters the Dead state directly, bypassing the Unconscious state.

As best as we can tell, the Red Box triggers on a failed ARM roll. So the above would be true even if Avi somehow had 2 wounds.

The point is: failing the ARM roll is the trigger, not taking a Wound. The net wounds thing doesn't change how Shock works: because it sends you dead anyway.

 

Shock vs Machaon has been answered before, and we are at risk of losing this answer if the old forums gets shut down.

No, Machaon doesn't die from Shock, the Doctor result fully and completely cancel out the Shock result (but I am less certain of Akbar Doctor result on an unconscious Asawira who gets hit by a single attack)

Edit: searching for it, but it's hard to find other than informal references to it. From memory it was either Koni or Palanka who answered.

 

Asawira are Shock Immune due Regen.

Was the Machaon vs Shock clarified before or after the change to how Shock works?

 

Before. Machaon isn't immune to Shock so merely failing against Shock would kill him if a Doctor result didn't cancel the attack fully.

So far all I can find is a thread where IJW specifies that a Protheion model would not die from Shock because it doesn't reach 0 wounds. (And that thread is huge and occupies a good portion of 514 results)

Edit: Getting closer, I do remember that the answer had to do with a passage in coordinated orders regarding success and failures: http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Coordinated_Orders#Coordinated_Order:_Success_.2B_Failure

 

Yeah OK - if it's been settled for Protheon, then clearly she doesn't die. It is interesting though (I'm fairly certain I ignored that thread at the time); because the rule does appear to make the Shock effects trigger on failing the ARM roll not on taking a wound (which is what is actually being prevented).

Would you mind linking @ijw's post on Protheion here for posterity?

 

That is a really interesting question, more complex than I originally expected when I saw the thread title.

I believe both models do their rolls in the resolution step and apply their effects model is healed BS attack hits, then models caught in the area must make their armour saves.

 

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...vs-shock-again/?do=findComment&comment=937868

 

Hmmm this is IJW's post in that thread:

And it's clear that it's from a time before the Shock FAQ. Whereas now Shock prevents NWI irrespective of multiple wounds. So I have NFI if it's relevent or not. Curiouser and curiouser.