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Heads of Hydrrah

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by hydra, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. hydra

    hydra Well-Known Member

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    Greetings fellow aliens!

    Some might remember from the old forums that I have been a rather nomadish person until now.

    But @Mayacasts enthusiastic review on Bit&Kiss combined with CBs Blackfriday sale have gotten me into Onyx.

    Since I am still a nomad by heart, I don't want to collect all combined models and I want to completely avoid the space apes.
    So I want to get a competitive all comer list with as little boxes as possible.
    Until now I have the Onyx Starter Box, the SWC Unidron box , Dr. Worm and friends and finally a Pneumarch as a Nexus stand-in (can't stand that Nexus model... ).

    So I have come up with a list for the overshadowing overmind of yours to comment on.
    Am I missing somethining vital?
    Is the Makreep better than a Noctifier?
    Should the Nexus Lt rather be a Hacker?

    Thanks for your input!
    [​IMG] Hhydrrra──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG] FRAACTA Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] UMBRA LEGATE Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) [​IMG]
    [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] MAAKREP TRACKER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON Plasma Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] NEXUS Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    5.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #1 hydra, Dec 29, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Ok, in parts XD

    Onyx has, in essence, two Fireteam: Core that will determinate what else will you have. Please do consider that Onyx shines on Limited Insertion Direct Action scenarios.
    First, if you want a Fireteam that goes forward, the Rodok are the option to go, and you can use them as they are (using an umbra for the fifth member) if you dont want to buy the blister.
    The other option is the Unidron Fireteam, where you can go the terrace route (2 forward observer, a team leader, and a choice of long range weapons between 2 missile launchers, 2 sniper rifles, or one of each), or something more aggresive (a tinbot unidron, a Legate spitfire, and 2-3 unidrons and 0-1 Nexus) but slower than the rodoks.

    Now, having twice the Ikadron + Imetron blister is a must to round any list, the support pack contains the only medic, the only engineer and the only D-Charges of the sectorial.
    The Fraacta is more than great.

    About TAGs. If you use rodoks, the Overdron is a good ARO piece to have back (if you can give it total cover by failing a guts roll, its much better) or as a complement to the Unidron fireteam if you want to reach 14-15 orders. If you use the Unidron terrace fireteam, then your choice is simple: Umbra+2Xeodrons or Sphinx (or no TAG).

    The Maakrep... not used, unless you have Yuan Yuan as part of a Mercenaries extra. If you have an enemy with lots of camo or ODD, use ikadrons to burn things, or even the sphinx (carefull against those myrmidons, though).

    Nexus and umbras: I use the Samaritan only as part of a Xeodron Haris, either to give them some protection against enemy hacking, and/or to give them melee protection (I've never used the Rodoks, but I think the Samaritan would serve the "melee protection" role there, just... not as useful, since the rodoks have dual shotguns and fire shotguns). The Legates are great as camo'ed specialists/assassins (Cybermask) and can provide utility (either Supportware to a Unidron or white noise against MSV visors, specially if you don't carry an Overdron), and he has a boarding shotgun for close firing.
    The Nexus are varied. The profiles used tend to be the Specialist Operative and the Hacker, the second one becoming quite interesting as a Lt thanks to Bit. Remember, though, that the nullifier blocks all technical attacks (no Flash Pulses going from, to, or through that patch) with the hacking, but a Nexus hacker Lt can use his Lt order to Supportware a remote.

    Bit & Kiss are a godsend: you start the game with a repeater in the ZoC of your Unidron terrace fireteam, and you can buff them from wherever you want. Then, pitchers and repeaters galore! Combo with a Nexus Hacker for "safe zones" for those troops you want to have out of the hacking areas (your hacker Lt can get in and out of the bubble, for example).

    The other Shasvastii in Onyx are expensive, and all are TO. The noctifer is too expensive as an ARO piece, and as an attack piece with spitfire... well, Sphinx.

    Total reaction is the good remote, and the EVO is quite good in the EC, add Bit and pitchers and terrify enemy fireteams!
     
    #2 xagroth, Dec 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  3. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Minor correction: Rodoks don't have the Vulcan shottys, that's the Suryats.

    Also note that having B&K, Umbra HD+, Nexus Hacker, and an EVO all in the same combat group allows you to coordinate hack two buffs for your drones and two cybermasks a GADGET buff, a targeted buff, and two cybermasks (provided KISS has already... Bit... the dust)!
     
    #3 Sabin76, Dec 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
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  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Somehow I doubt you can coordinate a hack that way: you need for all the components of a coordinated order to select the same target, and you want to select four different targets (the umbra, Bit, a remote and another, different remote).

    I stand corrected on the Vulkan shotguns, however :)
     
  5. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    You COULD Cybermask (no target), Evo Gadget Program (no target), and one Assisted Fire (target).

    But Bit can't participate if Kiss is still in a non-Null state.
     
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  6. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Clearly, I've put KISS on ARO glue gun duty and it's fallen :P. *I did overlook that bit, and also the part about having the same target (preventing two Assisted Fires on different troopers, for example), but I do remember discussion on the coordinated hack on the last forums, and the conclusion gave for some pretty fun combinations.
     
  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I'd say that Cybermask's target is the own hacker (but CB tried to go "look I can use complicated words" in the spanish version, thus making the translated one not as hard-coded as the it should). Remember, only those things that say "no target required" (like smoke grenades) do not require a model as a target... and even then, they are limited to the same spot in the table while doing a coordinated order.
    As for the gadget evo, you can certainly use overclock as part of an entire order coordinated order, since it has no target whatsoever, but the other REM buffs need a target, and no REM can benefit from 2 supportware at once.
     
  8. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Hmm, I don't agree that Cybermask has a target. IJW also confirmed that it could be used during a coordinated order with Assisted Fire (as an example) in the old forum. The write up for the program never uses the word "target" either.

    White Noise got the OK for coordinated too.

    BUT, looking around for fun, the wording on Fairy Dust is funny and could EASILY be argued that it's not permitted in a coordinated order.
     
  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yeah, a consolidation of wordings in the hacking programs and gear is needed, I think. As it's written, I'd think you can have 2+ supportware on the HI, but only the effects of one will be "active" each time the HI expends an Order or ARO...

    Anyway, about cybermask, it does not explicitely say that you select a target, but considering how it later tells you that range is irrelevant because it is "circumscribed" to the "casting" hacker... (and yeah, I went with the literal word used in spanish, instead of IJW choice of words, which I think is better btw).
     
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  10. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    With your list, to echo @xagroth, the Maakrep isn't a popular choice I myself sit firmly on the "I wish it worked, but it doesn't" side of the fence.

    I'd also consider getting a 5th Unidron for the link and upgrading the Nexus to a hacker. Using the LT order on hacking buffs has helped me in the past with order efficiency. Yes, you're revealing your LT, but lets be real. You're playing Onyx. He IS going to be susceptible to enemy Killer Hackers... especially with your shiny new Bit & Kiss throwing out repeaters haphazardly, so keep that in mind. Depending on who you're facing, it could be a bad idea.
     
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  11. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    That's what the nullifier is for, though :).
     
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  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    If we get real here, there are not so many Lt's in Onyx, and the Nexus is the most safe of them all.

    1st Lt order: drop a nullifier behind you and move (10cm/4'') to the other edge, first regular order: move until the border of the nullifier range. Now you can get out of the zone, and back in, with a short movement order if you need to hack... sadly, supportware is a long order.

    If you go that way, however, it's Umbra H+, Bit&Kiss (drop the minelayer'ing repeater in range of the Unidrones, so you can both buff and White Noise them), EVO and Nexus hacker. I would include a Nexus FO SO as replacement for Unidron casualties (be aware you can only link one Nexus with the Unidrones, even if you have 2) but that's all.
     
    #12 xagroth, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  13. Gaffles

    Gaffles Member

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    I think you mean specialist operative nexus, no such thing as a nexus FO
     
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  14. hydra

    hydra Well-Known Member

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    @xagroth : Thanks for your indepth sight of things. But, as I mentioned, I would like to stay a small boxwise, as possible. Probably in a Mayacast List-on-a-budget way.

    That Nexus using a Nullifier to defend himself from harm is an awesome idea, though I would fear, with so "little" orders, a bit to costy, though the buff might make it usefull again. Then... it hardly fits in here. Argh.

    Well, thanks fo9r the in put sofar, especially the combined hacking thing is an interesting topic!

    I am still not sure what to make of my list, I feel like 14 Orders is enough, though the Unidron Link feels a bit like wasted potential for one dude standing on a roof with a sniper (okay, it is a plasma sniper... but it is still just one guy)... that really is a tough armylist to wrap your head around :smilecat:
     
  15. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    So... It took a while, but I figured out eventually that dudes on roofs is generally a bad idea. Sure, they can see a lot, but a lot can see them.

    You're also hosed if you need to move that guy forward in to a zone or something. Getting Docs and Engineers up there takes more orders too.

    It's generally better to keep the guy on it ground and cover a smaller lane. That keeps the unit mobile and your dudes alive.

    I'm always amazed (and relieved) when I see someone put a Fireteam on a roof in missions like Frontline and Safe Area.
     
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  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, for minimun money spent things go this way:
    1. EC Starter box (3x Unidron, Legate, Fraacta, Maakrep)
    2. EC Support Pack (Dr Worm, 2 servitor worms)
    3. Unidron heavy weapons box (4 unidrons)
    4. Sphynx Tag
    5. Nexus blister
    So you go the Limited Insertion way, make a defensive Fireteam of Unidrons (cheapest option in points is 2 FO, 2 Missile Launcher, 1 hidden leader maybe K1 Tinbot but not really needed), the sphinx, the Dr Worm, the Legate H+, the Nexus Lt, and either the Fraacta (as herself) or the Maakrep (posing as a 2nd Nexus).

    The idea of this defensive fireteam is to force the enemy to spend orders to take out inexpensive troops that also give you orders for the Sphinx (your main killing machine, a third of your list and one of the cheapest tags in terms of money). Unless the enemy maneuvers to pick one Unidron at the time (and they are Dogged), he might face up to 4 Flash Pulses and 4 Missiles (EXP and either AP or circular template...), which lets you cover a zone nicely. Use the Nexus to cover for the first Unidron casualty (you really want that +3BS from the 5 member fireteam... and the Assisted Fire supportware to ignore enemy cover, with the shock being a bonus), and try to place the team on a corner of the table (they can reach from corner to corner, only a sniper rifle has better ranges and it wouldn't be the first time I blow a Raicho because the player tried to fire from corner to corner of the table).

    And @Reece, if I have 4 Unidrons in cover, and yeah all the table can see them but not pick them one by one... that is a big win, since even coordinated orders will suffer FtF rolls in equal or disadvantageous Bursts! :)
     
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  17. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Sure, but I see those as exceptions. If they're all on the same roof, they're susceptible to templates too.

    But my point really, is that "in general" I don't encourage putting a full Fireteam on a roof. Mostly for mobility reasons (Rodoks are an exception). That full Fireteam of Unidrons can also be easily picked off "one by one" with simple MSV2+Smoke. Yes they get Sixth Sense, but you're now only getting a single ARO.

    Again, I'm not saying never do it (I still do it on occasion), I'm just saying it shouldn't be your "go to" setup. Mobility is KEY in most missions and rooftops severely limit that.
     
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  18. Gaffles

    Gaffles Member

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    Is really solid start. Depending on how much your looking at diving into onyx or combined army, the 300 point box adds 4 rodoks (really great link team that can link with the nexus or legate or legate proxies as a samaritan) and 2 drones. Cost wise the drones are basically free in the 300 point box.
     
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  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yes, if you manage to find a surplus Onyx army box, they have been discontinued (and were sold at 50 bucks from the CB store the past Black Friday).

    Also, you might prefer to use one of the Legates models as a Samaritan, since the official Samaritan is so tall and unbalanced...
     
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