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Hawkwood

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Dec 4, 2019 at 6:07 PM.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    So along with other vanilla, we now have Hawkwood. I actually love and hate mercenaries. I love them because they are interesting and sometimes very good. Then hate because I feel like they are diluting the theme of the vanilla lists. You can actually make whole list with mercs now (see below).

    Edit: Note that, as far as I can see, he's only available to Vanilla PanO and Yu Jing. I can't find him anywhere else.

    Anyway, what do you think of him and how can he be used in in Vanilla YJ?

    I think he's a great troop. A 4-4 move MI, A great wip for a specialist if you take the CoC. BS13. ARM3 BTS6. Bioimmune and NWI. He's kind of expensive but he seems worth it. I hate to say he's better than the Hulang. in ITS he can forward deploy L1, has better and longer range weapons, but also good CC with Martial arts L1 (stealth, courage, -3 to opponent) and monofilament.


    Yu Jing
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    HAWKWOOD K1 Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser / MULTI Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 42)
    KENDRAT Vulkan Shotgun, Chest Mines / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    AÏDA SWANSON 2 Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 24)
    WILD BILL Rifle / 2 MULTI Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27)
    ARMAND (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser, Antipersonnel Mines / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 42)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Red Fury / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    MIRANDA ASHCROFT Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 20)
    Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]4
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    3.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #1 Space Ranger, Dec 4, 2019 at 6:07 PM
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 6:16 PM
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting profile. Will have to have a long think about how to actually use him.
     
  3. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    PanO, YuJing and Aleph have gotten access to him, but probably are the ones which less need have of him due to the powerful profiles they have in the range band where Hawkwood competes.

    I don't know what to think about his profile but I don't think it is better better than the Hulang, actually I would say quite a sidegrade.

    Hawkwood Pros
    - Unhackable
    - Better medium range weapon
    - +3 BTS
    - Bioinmmunity > Shock Immunity

    Hawkwood Cons
    - You probably want the red fury version and that costs 1 SWC

    Hulang Pros
    - MA 3 > MA1 makes the difference if you want him to get rid of stuff in CC
    - Mimetism makes him a better gunner inside the combi range where it should stay
    - one upper level of forward deployment

    Hulang Cons
    - It's hackable
    - Vulnerable to Viral

    Everything else they trade: Specialist operative vs CoC, LFt vs Nanopulser, D-Charges vs Character, …

    So in the end I think it's up to the player's preferences. If you are too much worried about hacking maybe choose Hawkwood. On the other hand if you want to really clean rooms in CC probably better rely on the Hulang, Hawkwood probably makes for a better Datatracker but so does Mowang, … , etc. Remember they have all the support vanilla can offer.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  4. JudgeDee7

    JudgeDee7 New Member

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    The K1 marksman rifle seems like a pretty potent weapon, but then again I've never seen them used on the table.
     
  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I have. An IA nightmare. remember all that armor you have? Forget about it.
     
  6. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    That just sounds like Infinity in general.

    On topic though, this guy's a less crappy Hulang. I'll probably give him a shot, and I know exactly what model to proxy for him too.
     
  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    K1 dials that up to 11, as it's Mono without the instant-death effect.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, K1 is worse than Normal, but specifically against doors, TAGs and HI it's better, although for the standard ARM 3 HI it'll be similar in performance to a Mk12, a weapon that is 2 points cheaper.
    Specifically, in order to super-optimize the K1 profile you'll need to hunt big game, so if Hawkwood with that gun isn't shooting at HI or TAGs, you're using him wrong and if the HI isn't ARM 4+ then you're not getting technical value.
    Still get cover, which is why K1 is regarded as utter crap.
     
  9. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    K1 sniper are crap because you're trading Dmg 15 for Dmg12+ignore armor, which means they're only more effective than a standard sniper if you're shooting at ARM4 or above. However K1 rifles are pretty darn good, you only lose 1dmg so the K1 rifle is just as good as your standard rifle against ARM1, and only gets better from there.

    As for Hawkwood, after giving it some though he is actually closer to an upgraded pheasant red fury, or Taï Sheng, than a hulang. In vanilla Yu-jing I'd say it really depends on how much you value his CC skills and his non-hackability, and how tight you are for point.
     
    AdmiralJCJF and Dragonstriker like this.
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    K1 Combi Rifles shouldn't be compared to Combi Rifles, though, they should be compared to the slightly cheaper Multi Rifles, or Multi version of the base gun when you consider the cost, so we're looking at breaking even against ARM 4+ for the K1 to be better than AP/Multi Rifles while still being more expensive.
    However, we should not understate how effective this ammo can be against TAGs. If and when you face one.
    So in my opinion, factoring in cost potential you're better of with any other version of the same gun archetype which in my opinion makes K1 ammo a dud that should be removed from game to reduce the rules overhead (a.k.a. bloat). As you might be able to tell by now, I am not a great believer in having sub-optimized profiles in this game and strongly think those profiles/units detracts from the game rather than add to it.
     
  11. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    As far I can tell, Pheasant RF Coc can go into proper burial now.
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yes, indeed. Hawkwood is simultaneously both what the Pheasant and what the Shang-Ji should be with minor adjustments.
     
    Space Ranger likes this.
  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if I agree on the Pheasant. Hawkwood is +10pts compared to Pheasant Red Fury + CoC. But of course he has a lot more things for those points.

    All i know is, I've gone up against K1 Combi, not marksman, before and it was murder. I think the bigger thing is that it's +3 up to 24" on a BS13 guy that can Forward Deploy. For missions that I know that will have a TAG or possibly a lot of HI, I'll take him. Especially limited insertion.
     
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    All other things aside this trend of 4-4 MI purely for the sake of abusing a free FD1 trend needs to fuck right off.
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, in the case of the Pheasant; Mimetism and NWI would go a long way to increase the Pheasant to the survival point where a Light Infantry CoC gets useful. I am not quite sure how +1 BS, +1 PH, +1 ARM, +3 BTS, +Bioimmunity, +FD1, Multi Pistol and Mono CCW stacks up against Free Agent and DA CCW with only 10 points difference, though.
    In the case of Shang-Ji; convert the NWI to proper old fashioned HI stats and give it Shang-Ji profiles and weapons. Just remember to remove Mimetism, because not everything in IA should have nor need Mimetism. There you have it, a martial artist capable of joining Fireteams, at a more comfortable price point than current Shang-Ji with FD1 making it slightly more capable of performing the role of a mid-field brawler in vanilla that the Shang-Ji weaponry wants it to perform.

    Bravery is the most bollocks ITS rule in recent history, I agree. At the very least it should also apply to HI and TAGs as well as it doesn't fix the problems that some MI have and introduces problems with some MI units because MI as a class of troopers do not have systemic problems.
     
  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I focus on what I have. Not what I want. I assume what we have is going to be what we have until the game dies. Sure the Pheasant could be better. But it's not. And there's no guarantee they will make it better. It can end up worse. He's better in N3 from N2 but still not actually good. We can see it with the Shang Ji. Something that needed good changes and got mostly nothing. They must know it too and not care because they are not coming out with figures that are going to sell.
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I am not sure they know. From second-hand accounts (where playtesters were describing the Shang-Ji Core as the powerhouse of the sectorial) it seems the issue is that a sufficiently large amount of their playtesters do not seem to have figured out how to deal with HI.

    As for focusing on what you have, I am not entirely averse to that, either, which is why I am no longer playing IA.
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't heard those particular anecdotes but they don't surprise me.