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Hassassin Theorycrafting

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    So far, I'm finding list-building in N4 to be fascinating. It feels completely different from N3. Max 15 orders, many units are cheaper, and there are a lot of new units (many of which are also cheaper than they would have been in N3).

    I've been building Hassassins lists based around 5 Panzerfaust AROs in group 2, because Daylamis just seem too good to pass up. I've also been taking three Fidays (two with mines, and Djabel) because they're so cheap now, and I want to test drive them. The remaining bulk of group 1 is taken up by a Yara fireteam which does most of the work in the active turn.

    What I've found is that I run out of SWC, which is a weird experience for the Hassassins. 5 Daylamis eat up 2.5 SCW but only 30 points. So I wind up trying to fill group 1 with big scary guys like Asawiras, but those guys want heavy weapons and I don't have enough SWC left to satisfy them. Without a bunch of Asawiras, everything is so cheap now that I'm actually having trouble reaching 300 points.

    Here's a list I'm working on right now for Domination: gZIQaGFzc2Fzc2luLWJhaHJhbQRIQiAxgSwCAQoAgTgBAwAAgTgBAwAAgU8BAQAAgVEBAgAAgVEBAQAAhgwBAgAAgS0BDgAAgS0BCAAAgUkBCgAAgUwBAQACBQCBQwEGAACBQwEGAACBQwEGAACBQwEGAACGCQECAA==

    It's got an enormous ARO presence, 3 Fidays, an incredible toolbox fireteam, and an Asawira spitfire for an extra attack vector (and just to use up points). But I'm still 6 points short of 300. Normally I'd throw in a Warcor to make up the difference, but that's N3 thinking.

    I think I'm just going to run it 6 points short and see what happens.

    What are your N4 Hassassins list-building experiences?
     
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  2. jackfrost

    jackfrost Active Member

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    may I ask why asiwara need heavy weapons? ap rifle and light shotgun gets work done?

    looking at your list I really like it but I"m curious how you feel about leila in that barid killer hacker spot since you have the points left over for her?
     
  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    True, but spending that many points on a gunfighter and then not giving him a ranged weapon feels strange to me. Especially now that the Spitfire has AP ammo so it's an almost unqualified improvement over the AP rifle. You lose the LSG, but in that rangeband we have Berserk :-)

    I did try an Asawira-heavy version of the list earlier today. I wound up with three hulking Asawiras who just followed Yara around buffing her while she shot through smoke. From a narrative perspective it was kind of funny. Did feel like wasted points, though.

    It might be fun to try a Military Orders style Asawira list with a 5-Asawira fireteam to just go on a rampage. In that link, I would be happy to include some AP rifles and boarding shotguns. But an unlinked rifle Asawira would seem strange to me.

    Interesting idea that I hadn't considered. It would appeal to me a lot more if the team didn't already have Yara providing a marksman rifle. But with Yara already there, I'm not sure I'd want to lose the Trinity upgrade, which I suspect will be very strong. Leila also doesn't have a pitcher, although that's less important since the other Barid has one.

    I might actually be more inclined to keep the Barid KHD for the super-Trinity and pitcher, and replace the other Barid with a Ghulam hacker because a LI in an aggressive link loves a shotgun. That would save me a 7th point that I can't find any way to spend!
     
  4. jackfrost

    jackfrost Active Member

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    7 pts is just what you need for the new cheaper flash pulse bot!
     
  5. Xagul82

    Xagul82 Well-Known Member

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    I fooled around with the idea of a limited insertion list... making intensive use of tactical awareness, but I am not sure if it's working the way I hope it would.

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  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    That's just it! In N3 the excess points would go to warcors, flashbots, what have you, but in N4, my 15 slots are already full. It's really changing list-building not to be able to toss a 16th model in there. Come to think of it, I feel like my N3 lists were very often 16 units exactly.
     
  7. jackfrost

    jackfrost Active Member

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    what about upgrading your ghulam doctor to the character doctor?
     
  8. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Not enough points for Avicenna or a Muyib doctor, and that Rahman guy isn't in HB.

    Ran the list against Ikari in Domination today. Got distracted by bloodlust and spent like 4 orders gunning down a Tanko ML with Yara, when I could have smoked and ignored it for one order. Consequently I didn't get to experience the full effect of the Yara link as I didn't have enough orders to spread a bunch of repeaters around. Nonetheless, the link secured a zone, KHDed a Ninja hacker, fought off a Rui Shi, and poked two buttons, so all in all I'm pretty impressed with it. Definitely feeling the low regular order count, though.

    Yara eventually died to a crit, which made me think about whether the doctor is worth having in the link. The link is all LI, so as often as not, when they go down they'll go straight to dead. I might try replacing the doctor with a Muyib HRL for that sweet, sweet Tactical Awareness (as well as a bit of long-range firepower). But there's not enough SWC! That's still a very strange feeling for me, to run out of SWC in Hassassins.

    Here is the current iteration. It's a bit weird in that the Asawira doctor is outside the link without any Nasmats, but I just didn't have room for them. I figure even if he doesn't heal anyone, he's a durable specialist who can poke buttons, hold zones, and maybe you're right that he can even do some fighting with that AP rifle: gZIQaGFzc2Fzc2luLWJhaHJhbQpEb21pbmF0aW9ugSwCAQoAgTgBAwAAgTgBAwAAgU8BAQAAgVEBAgAAhgwBAgAAgS0BDgAAgUcBBgAAgUwBAQAAgUkBBQAAgVEBBAACBQCGCQEDAACBQwEGAACBQwEGAACBQwEGAACBQwEGAA==
     
  9. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    MO style! Hassassins are the new Military Orders. We should lobby for AVA: Total Asawiras.
     
  10. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I agree that list building is weird and interesting. Tactical window being paired with a simultaneous big points drop for most units, and particularly for middle quality units.

    I played an Asawira pain train today. AP Spitfire, Doctor BS, Doctor AP Rifle, Leila and the MSV2 forward deployment character. Had the same issue as MO - namely, running into a wall of camo - but the Asawiras themselves are incredibly good. The board prevented the opponent getting good lines on them with high tier HMG, and so waves of skirmishers and such tried to take them on and generally just died.
     
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  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Did someone call "*Nationality*-themed generic Infinity Army #9"?
     
  12. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Oh, I don't think Asawiras are generic. They're very similar to Pano's knights, but I think that's about it, isn't it? I can't think of any other faction with a similar unit.

    And despite my glee, I don't actually think HB is the new MO, you can run an MO-style core but you're still capped at 4 Muslim Knights so you can't go full MO. Also obviously HB has a lot more than just Asawiras, whereas MO is just knights and TO infiltrators.

    (Plus MO doesn't really count as an existing faction at all because it's still unplayably bad. Hopefully it will get a rework in November.)

    Anyway, so far the new HB doesn't feel generic at all. I know people complain about the fireteam salad, and time will tell whether HB's fireteams start to feel samey with everyone else's, but HB's other elements still feel pretty unique to me.
     
  13. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    Just made this for Frontline, it's insane the number of links i can form between 9 units!

    I was thinking in use Lasiq+Yara+Asawira for that FD(+8") and CBQ, the other link could be Ghulam Lt+ Muyibs+ Leila + Barid, with Ghulam NCO smoking Yara's way nearby if i need to reform a 5-link. Farzans and Daylamis protecting the Haris flanks.

    But i could use those same Muyibs/Leila and upgrade the former haris to a core, for a more "in your face" approach... So many possibilities!
     

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  14. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    I think is the only way to play haqqislam in N4 with 2 or 3 fidays. The rest of the list is what you want.
     
  15. Redfaint

    Redfaint Well-Known Member

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    what about something like this? Any opinion? Would play with a haris asa/ghulam/leila
    upload_2020-9-28_21-47-43.png

    upload_2020-9-28_21-51-36.png
     
  16. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    What's your plan for group 2? It's nice to have some regular orders to move into group 1 after space opens up, but I'd want to have something in that group to spend the orders on in the meantime. The Shihab can shoot in the active turn, but not well.

    So, maybe swap Yasbir into group 2? He's your main source of smoke, so you can spend those three orders dropping smoke and still have your full group 1 pool to spend on your active units. (Although personally I think Yasbir is overpriced, and would use the Ghulam NCO or Mutts for that role).

    Also, Leila feels a little redundant in a fireteam that already has an AP spitfire. I would probably replace her with a Barid KHD to save points and upgrade Trinity. You lose the e/m mines, but gain the pitcher which serves a similar purpose (deployables to stop hackable units from advancing).
     
  17. Redfaint

    Redfaint Well-Known Member

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    Since the second group is so small, because of the dayalims, I can't really do much with it. Maybe realign the dayalims or make a difference.

    What would you take instead of yasbir, I would like to have some support for the midfield and the smoke is just another bonus. Furthermore, I think he has fighting skills

    I really like the leila/barid switch
     
  18. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    If you want a CC expert with smoke in the midfield, a third Fiday would be cheaper than Yasbir and has a better marker state. You don't have to deploy them on the enemy side of the table if you don't want to :-)

    That said, you've already got the Asawira and two Fidays, which I think is probably all the midfield CC you need.

    If it were me, I'd probably replace the group 2 Kameel with the Ghulam NCO, which after the Barid/Leila swap lets you replace Yasbir with anything up to 33 points. We've got lots to choose from in that range. A Nadhir MMR would give you a second attack vector to complement the fireteam. A Ragik or a Farzan minelayer never goes amiss. You'll have a few points left over in any case to upgrade something else, probably the other Kameel.
     
  19. Redfaint

    Redfaint Well-Known Member

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    i think i take one shujae. I already have one nadhir and to much hd leach out my order pool to much. however, i want to keep the flamenspear
     
  20. Xagul82

    Xagul82 Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of using Yasbir, he has smoke, and Holoechos and is an infiltrator. He can free up your Fidays if they are trapped with mines and other stuff like this.

    If you run a Shihab I would somehow try to squeeze in a Kameel EVO?! Skipping Leila and using a Barid KHD would free up the first three points [emoji6]



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