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Haqqislam Negativity Thread

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by LoganGarnett, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Jammers.

    I hate and loathe jammers.

    I find them completely ineffectual for doing much of anything at all. I fully understand the impact they might have but have never actually had it occur. Much less against anything that I'd be really happy to see it land on.

    Yet the fanatic sheeple peat locally as well as the wide range of Durr InterNeets always want to know why I don't have four. In. Every. Single. List. Gosh forbid if I find them generally uninterested well before their lackluster performance for me. I know it's hard to have to change the reflex behaviors around some oddball unit that breaks the regular rhythm but sheeesh. So instead I hobble my faction by generally denying myself the very core around which Haqqislam is based.

    Let me be free.
     
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  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I think that is you, not the Jammers, so to speak. Jammers are amazing. Ghazi are nuts.

    Also think that Haqq have got the ability to win direct firefights and effectively piece trade, jamming the board with temple, deployables etc. We're good for that IMO!
     
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  3. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered what do people have in mind when saying "Haqq is great at piece trading". Every time I can only imagine it as "If we throw enough 5-7pts Irregulars into the meatgrinder, we are quite likely to win that firefight, even with most of them dying" and sometimes a bunch of Dogged troops throwing their lifes away to take down several targets... Which in my mind fits a little bit into Hassassin mindset (well, those Daylami knew too much anyway, and our agents do everything to complete this important task) and playstyle.

    A little less into QK, who still have Bashi's and stuff.

    Absolutely doesn't fit into Ramah for me. A bunch of elite troops, many geneticaly altered, few of their kind among the Human Sphere, super-soldiers in their own right.. who cost plenty of points.. And piece-trading with them doesn't feel so good, while you also can't always get better chances at winning firefights or get a worthwhile trade or at least close the gap between you and your enemy.
    At least there are Mukhtars and Namurrs, who can trade AROs in close quarters now.

    After gifting my HB collection to my friend and dedicating myself completely to Ramah (what an idiot) I just fail to se competitiveness in my army. And my opponents when I show them the choices for Ramah go "Oh, Mukhtars are pretty cool.. But why are your choices so bad or plain?".

    Guess I just need to follow the path of my friend - give up on competitiveness and just play the game for fun/rage and tears of my opponents by exploiting gimmics and superstitions.
     
  4. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I mean RTF has stuff like a Khawarij MSV2 MK12 in a Ghulam Core with NCO Smoke LGL, Mukhtar Haris with MSV2 Red Fury, AVA 3 Fanous and Namurr/Tuaregs for objectives. All these things are very strong. They don't need to piece trade, they can absolutely win firefights.

    You can then add these things into your Vanilla Lists with Hunzakuts, Daylami, Naffatun, Ghazi, Fidays, Farzans... Yeah. Haqqislam is NOT weak. They get some great options across the board. If you aren't doing well with Haqq, consider that they may not be the problem. If people think that the range of Haqq troops are poor, they need to reevaluate.
     
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  5. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it's me. Perhaps it's how our tables are set in tournaments. Maybe both.

    I haven't been having much trouble with HB, even with questionable tactics and decisions. Triple Ragiks? Great, they just wiped out that fireteam and only one was wounded, going for pre-death rampage afterwards. Infiltrating Rifle Daylami spam? Woo, fun times! Ghazi? Stopped using them after a couple of games, too simple. Ayyar? Yeah, don't worry, these are just three Panzerfaust Daylami..

    With Ramah it's just.. There is plenty of mobility, that I can't really utilize. There are TO or MSV2 units I can't really move past or trade well with. And that god-damned Zuyong+Haidao Sniper fireteam pinned me down right from the beginning of the game, because, oh boy, it was a great idea of our Organizer to leave a huge shooting range between two DZs, leaving one barely without cover and the other with a huge-ass tower capable of holding the entire HI fireteam!
    Oh, or that one time I played against Onyx with Unidron link and a Super-Jumping TAG link, which evaporated my ARO pieces and basically took contol over the whole table on the first turn..

    At least I can have fun with our USAriadna player. Really fun guy, though still suffers from "CC is awesome" sydnrome of Warhammer 40k. Damn, his Grunt stabbed Ayax to death with a knife! And his Hardcase beat the sh*t out of my Farzan with his BARE HANDS. What a savage.
    He also writes great Campaign BatReps.. And has terrible luck from time to time.
     
  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    I sometimes think what makes Mutts really strong is actually the e/marat. Basically anything that can shrug off a chain rifle is vulnerable to an e/marat. So a Mutt can stop pretty much anything from coming around a corner.

    It's also nice to be able to take potshots with the jammer before they reach the corner, but I agree with you, they're just potshots.
     
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  7. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Hands down my favorite view.

    Everyone else needs to stop being contradictory or even constructive. Stay on topic.

    I hate that.
     
  8. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    If you really like triple Ragiks, then you need to try triple Nahabs.

    Ramah is not a “trick” sectorial at all, unlike its’ sister sectorials. It plays like a mobile/close-range PanO. 5 man Fat2 links ensure pretty good odds at all firefights except for when you get put on 1’s with a -12 mod.

    On the other hand, with how many strong active pieces RTF has, you don’t have to take an active core. Ghulam Missile tower has been pretty effective for me, accompanied with 3 flash pulse bots and a warcor.
     
  9. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    I use as proxies for djanbazans, at least they have some utility
     
    #29 HardDisk, Dec 12, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  10. VicBanjo

    VicBanjo Máster of Kaboom

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    Hello fellow Haqqislam players. Lately I've been seeing this "negative" posts about our new sectorial Ramah and the the uselessness of various units of in the new releases. It's not my goal to convince you that this units or fire teams are viables if not to give you a reason to use them. Recently in my country I participated together with other 27 players in our first national tournament here in Mexico. I played RTF and got second place just behind a Shasvastii player with which I couldn't play. Also I've played other tournaments with RTF with similar results and using all the units that get almost all the complaints: Zhayedan, Al Fasid, Khawarij, and Muhktar.

    - Muhktar IMO are the best active hunters Haqqislam ans specially RTF has. I prefer duo (MSV2 + Dr) over haris due to the cost. They just work perfectly as midfield clearance pieces thank you to the shock immunity and NWI and I've faced full link ARO pieces with them with excellent results.

    - You must understand that Khawarij are "disguised" Ghulam with better aim and bioimmunity. All RTF is made of glass (except Maggy and Namurr) so you must takes always consider this when playing your pieces in the field. IMO Spitfire Khawarij works better than the Mk12, it's easy to think that the MSV2 is the wisest option yet you must consider the double critical possibility in 5 dice with the Spitfire.

    - Al Fasid is an interesting piece with many tools which profiles fill different niches. HMG one is an active back line shooter and smoke laying piece, his mines gives him and excellent defense against sneaky AD or hackers. HRL is a zone defender, he is equipped to effectively stay defending a sector with his high cost, mines, SMG, SSL1, heavy pistol and dodging with 14's.

    - Let's address the white elephant in the room: Zhayedan. Yes they are costly. Yes the Veteran L1 and Automedikit are circumstantial. No MSV, boring profiles and lack of special rules. Yet they got one of the best Monster Hunters in the game. I've used this guys and every time they delivered: removing ARO pieces and breaking the enemy lines. Also more than once the Automedikit gave me the game. Zhayedan are made to shoot, brake and hide.

    I think the problem comes when we try to compare the different factions because they have "similarities" and it's valid yet remember that every faction and each one of it's sectorials have a background and speciality. It's easy to say that Asawira is a CC wannabe yet e must understand that their background also influences in the profile. Furthermore, if you a history fan you will understand the reason behind Haqqislam using lot's of cheap irregular units as unbalanced trade pieces like Daylami, Muttawi'ah and Kum.

    In conclusion, we must adapt to the tools we've given in Haqqislam. Is not useful to blame the faction for not having MULTI weapons, premium shooters or incredible IP but we must dig more in how to use what we were given to counter our vulnerabilities.
     
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  11. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    I.. don't see Khawarijs as "disguised" Ghulam. If they had no Super-Jump or all their CC nonsense - sure. But not like they currently are.
    When Ramah was teased, I thought that Zhayedans would be perfect for Ghulam mixed fireteams. Experienced veterans and marksmen leading their team.. But we got two Super-Human units instead. Both of which are being held back by their team in terms of mobility.
    I'd rather had Khawarijs and Namurr kicked out of Ghulam fan-club, replaced by Zhayedans. Khawarijs would've been fine in their own core/haris, and Namurr could've joined Mukhtars with their 6-2..

    But hey, I'm just some whiny bastard who complains about his loved faction while still playing it. Though some match-ups burn me out and make me stop playing at all for a while.
     
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  12. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Four Ghulams and a Khawarij MK12 or Spitfire can make short work of a linked Kamau Sniper if you can get within 16" so it is at +0. Not easy but not impossible and reliant on skill with deployment etc.
     
  13. Lion Tremere

    Lion Tremere Herald of the Trident
    Warcor

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    In what Universe are Zhayedans considered "one of the best Monster Hunters in the game" and based on what? I agree, that it would be a nice option to mix Zhayedans in the big Ghulam family with Khawarij and Nafatuns.
    But alas I see no reason to even field Zhayedans apart from a single breaker attacker, just to have some fun killing some infantry with BTS+shock combo.
     
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  14. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    The fact they're hitting both arm and halved BTS makes them surprisingly effective against TAGs and other big units.
    Only a select few units have BTS 9, so you're effectively hitting BTS 3 + cover most of the time. Which isn't bad.

    I think I'm going to challenge myself for the coming few months and always include the breaker rifle profile in my lists when playing vanilla or RTF.
     
  15. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I once used Zhayedan Breaker as a hunter and, while I had almost always really bad luck with him, he still managed to deliver some brutal bursts in his battles, for example destroying wounded Squalo et cetera. Ignoring Cover bonuses to hit and halving BTS is really good vs tough units.
    But to be honest, I used him (and a Sniper Zhayedan) in Vanilla. Not once used them in Ramah. Mukhtars, Nahabs - I feel like they are just better than Zhay in hunting role, especially that they start closer to enemy and both have NWI (plus many more advantages and only small disadvantages).

    Zhayedans have definitely the most wasted potential in Haqq - nice minis, nice fluff, almost nice options, but overall just shelf inhabitants. Make them link with even 2 Ghulams and Rahman and it would be much better.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  16. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Personal preference: I think "normies" link and "supers" link was the way to go, coupled with reworked special movement rules (so that they all count as Move modification). Also Haris with somebody for Fasid.
    Not sure it wouldn't has made RTF actually worse though.

    Both Zhayedan MML2 profiles are okay (BS 12+3 on mid-tier infantry is, or used to be okay) except maybe Automedikit cost/effect. Compare your rifleman with basic Mukhtar and become sad. They are not best anything IMO, but could be close to useable in RTF with okay links (what wouldn't be, lol).
     
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  17. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    That's the spirit.

    Also I don't like their 1940's rain jackets.
     
  18. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    wow people using zeyadans!! you are my heros, they are horrible why runing them if we can pay the same for a jenizar fireteam?

    Well, in my opinion Ramah clearly was not thought
    - Why i can run super jump and climing plus in the same firteam, if we run that firteam we spend a lot of orders just moving 1 unit insite the 5 men fireteam its a waste. The same happens just with ghulam + kawarij. Maybe in N4 this could be done in the same order of movment.
    - Is anyone using alfasid moreover is anyone using his firteam its a joke? or trolling?
    - I wont spend any time talking about zeyedans... unplayable (just link each other)(in tournaments)
    - just play ramah for kawarij and muktar, but muktars cant handle strong things with that red fury, im running kawarij mk12 its more efective.
    - If we dont run muktar we only have the crit option to take down heavy things.

    In conclusion play ramah in vanilla its much the same + muttas, without fireteams 4 dice fat2 instead of 5.

    In the other hand I want to highlight vanilla haqqislam HI. Does Azrail exist? Why play overcosted alfasid? why run a jenizar (hmg)? the only acceptable is ayyar but i would change the sniper profile a little bit (maybe viral sniper and surprise lvl2).
    - I'm tired to aro with daylami, TR (the only acceptable option) and Shock snipers...
     
  19. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    Or you could potentially drop in a Nahab and nanopulse/shotgun Kamau's fireteam
     
  20. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain what you mean by "strong things"? I'm going to make a stupid assumption that you mean ARM roll here since you compared Red Fury with Mk12. So I ran calculator (assuming 3 man link) against random TAG and got this:

    Mukhtar gets like 36%/11% while Khawarij gets 40%/24% to inflict/take 1+ wounds without smoke.
    It changes to 41%/4% for Mukhtar and 51%/8% for Khawarij with smoke.

    Doesn't sound like Mk12 guy is actually superior for his DAM considering how poorly he reacts to even a single wound he's more likely to take.

    Funny thing is, this is strongest DAM in the game versus weakest (practical) DAM in the game against a target which is close to one most affected by DAM differences.
    DAM is a joke in this game, even more so than ARM. You may as well forget it even exists unless you're breaking a L&S console.

    Something something Lasiq Fat1 price grumble grumble.
     
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