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Haqqislam in N4

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    To those that are not up to date N4 is coming and is scheduled for Summer of 2020.

    This tread is created to discuss Haqqislam and its sectorials in the upcoming edition, Suggestions, ideas, wishlist's, opinions, things that work, things that do not work all are welcome if done in a polite manner.

    Now the most basic rule of the thread, be polite this is not a thread to be dissolved in arguing who has the correct ideas and who has not, all ideas are welcome and all comments and criticism is appreciated, as long as the tone is polite.

    For a more generic discussion of the upcoming N4 please use this thread

    Thanks.
     
  2. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    I'd like QKs options to better reflect the current state of NA2 armies and offer more. Although I know this won't happen for a number of reasons including the fact that Qk has been iced.

    I haven't played haqq much in the last year to comment more really. I think the faction overall is in a better place that most so as long as it retains its strength while retaining its complexity I'm happy. I do wish mutts would be nerfed though just so people stop recommending I take them.
    I don't want to. Thank you for the advice. I know I'm weaker without. My mind is made up. You can stop now...
     
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  3. siri

    siri Well-Known Member

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    I think we should have more of supersoldiers and more SK and war bands.
    Using more skills like metachemistry to create or enhance habilities giving the group a more medic / chemical aspect.

    Doctors should be more useful, as engineers, enhance, repair, add armor, add speed, etc...
     
    #3 siri, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  4. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    Honestly id like to see CB experiment with stats and rules combos more. Ive still stood by doing things like 4-6 movement, a supersoldier gone wrong with protheion, an existing supersoldier but in HI power armor, a basic infantry profile but with 2 or 3 wounds. Im sure theres more than i can think of off the top of my head.
     
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  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Everyone should remember that a new edition means it's time for another Mutt buff. I'm thinking they go to two (2) smoke grenades at no points cost change for an active turn burst increase :P
     
  6. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    I think Haqqislam is a great place right now. I can only think of a few things:
    1. Regeneration and Auto-med Kits should allow models to try to heal with a successful Phys roll at the beginning of the turn (before order generation) if unconscious. Model is removed if they fail.
    2. All Zhayedans get MM2 by default. This will give the HMG and Missile launcher profiles a niche role.
    3. Remove MA from Asawira and give them NBW. Then their fluff will match their cc capabilities.
     
  7. Palomides

    Palomides Well-Known Member

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    One thing I'd like to see for Haqqislam in N4 is more sharply defined Sectorial flavors. Right now, the three kind of blur together. Pick your flavor of toolsy LI link (often with Leila), supplement with some sort of Haris, and then fill in the rest with your skirmishers. I don't know that a Muyib core is REALLY that different than a Ghulam/Khawarij core, or a Ghulam/Odalisque or whatever.

    I don't really have a clear idea for how to implement the changes, but I'd want the flavor to be something like this: Ramah is experimental and elite, QK is the professional military, and HB is sneaky with great trading pieces. Maybe aim for LI with Ramah, QK with 12-15 orders and links, and HB with 18-20 orders and lots of warbands / irregulars.
     
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  8. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    Haqqislam is in a pretty good state at the moment, besides some suspect profiles and Qapu Khalqi, which has fallen out of favour.
    RTF has added a lot of cool super soldiers which fits the fluff very well and adds some competent gunfighters to the faction.

    Qapu Khalqi is some kind of proto-NA2 faction and it lost its identity now that actual NA2 factions have been added to the game and the fact a lot of sectorials got updates which gave them mixed fireteam options and wildcard troopers.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but QK took some big losses in Daedalus Falls. Sounds like a the perfect moment for a restructuring!

    Some things I'd like to see changed have already been mentioned by posters in this thread here, but I'll just reiterate them:
    • Either make Ghazi's more expensive or reduce their availability in vanilla. More experienced players know how to play around Ghazi's, but they bring a lot of tools to roadblock your opponents for a mere 5 points. It never hurts to commit a measly 20 points for the returns you'll get. I think they're fine in Hassassin Bahram, because they lack any MSV2.
    • Change how Automedkit/Regeneration works. In a faction with a lot of doctor plus profiles and the fact you can't reroll spending a command token makes the skill feel very unsafe to use, other than maybe the Asawira.
    • Which brings me to the Zhayedan, either reduce their price somewhat, or give more profiles MML2. Their current skillset feels bloated and only two, maybe three profile are worth considering.
    • Other than their holoprojectors, Hafza are kinda boring now. Their fluff mentions how they are well-trained officers, so any skills related to those, like NCO, could enhance lieutenant shell game shenanigans, or help the fireteams they're in.
    • Change the loadout of Halqas to medium-range weapons as supposed to the missile launchers and HMG's they have now. Fits the whole mechanized deployment better in my opinion.
    • Full Auto level 1 on the Azra'il would be cool. It would give them more of a niche other than being a very plain HMG/Feuerbach platform.
     
  9. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    So, it would be a really long post to write about everything I'm thinking, so I'll try to keep myself short ;)
    I play for few long years, since N2, and I think that Haqq is in a good place right now.
    Still there are some things to change or some units that don't get too much attention, so I'll write about them, but first...

    1. Ghazi Muttawiah - leave them like they are! ;) I know most people whine about them, but they're extremely impetuous, fragile, and not that hard to avoid. Jammers are far more dangerous on the new platforms in Nomads and PanO, when they''re hidden under Camo.

    2. Automedikit/Regeneration - TRUE that. They need something better, especially in Haqq with our Doctor Plus. Maybe make Auto + and Regen + with free roll at the start of turn, before order count, as @Brokenwolf written above? Definitely some change would be good.

    3. Daylamis are great, one of the best things changed in N3 - still the guy with rifle don't see any play.

    4. Hafza - since Naffatun can be LT I rarely use Hafzas, only HRL from time to time. Or to hide Saladin. They aren't bad, yet they could fit the fluff better - could benefit from something like NCO, or LT2?

    5. Halqa - maybe make them close quarter shooters? With SMG, Boarding Shotguns, Assault Pistols?

    6. Govads - never played them in Vanilla, yet used them in Bahram. Not bad units, but would benefit from some small upgrade.

    7. Khawarij - give FAT1 to every profile, now it's weird, that some has it, some not, and it makes CoC obvious.

    8. Zhayedan - I'm a player that tries to use everything he can, so I used Zhay Breaker and Sniper with some success. Still with the new RTF toys they are shelf minis. Maybe change Automedikit a bit. Don't give Marksmanship to everyone, I think it should stay on max 3 burst weapons (loose it on Specnaz HMG, his skills combining together are too good). Some changes to profiles are needed. IMO sniper could get AP gun (for AP + Shock) for 1SWC. Or even Breaker Sniper - and then he would become one of the most dangerous snipers in Haqq, and it would be cool.
    In Ramah - let them make mixed links, like: 1 or 2 Ghulam can join Zhayedan Core and 1 Ghulam can join Zhayedan Haris.

    9. AzRa'il - they NEED at least V:Courage. They're hardened veterans. Some of our HI should get Tactical Awareness - so maybe them? Trying to let them still be inexpensive, but reliable as ARO bunker that won't go prone after one hit.

    10. Farzan - I really like the new profile with Marksmanship L1 and D-Charges, but... Few years ago I was hoping for new profile. All of our infiltrators have Rifle+L Shotgun or B. Shotgun, so maybe make a Farzan profile with SMG? It would be cool in Vanilla and in Bahram too. And such a profile combined with FO and D-Charges would be just great. Cheaper, with well combined ranges of SMG+Flash Pulse.
    And maybe AVA 2 in Vanilla?

    11. Kum Riders - is somebody using them, while we can use Kasym or Twins? ;) They could've been cheaper, now the plain riders aren't a competition. And Zamira also is a bit expensive for what she gives. For me it's Kasym, then far away Zuleyka, and then just... nothing :P

    And about new guys from Ramah - I'm playing RTF since it came out and still didn't use Namurr. Many special rules, yet the cost is really big for a plain rifle + l shotgun. And she can make many things, but nothing really good - she's not a great shooter, not a great cc fighter, not even a great button pusher. Maybe give her a better gun? Or make her superior Odalisque with I-Kohl L2? Or at least WiP15?
    And does Hakims really need to cost 0,5SWC?

    That's all.
    For now ;)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  10. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    If CB had an ounce of moral courage they'd give us a Kaysm Beg lieutenant profile with inspiring leadership.

    (...on reading it I'm faintly terrified that this won't come across as irony.)
     
  11. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    :joy: That's funny. You know that Nomads and PanO say the exact opposite?

    That the Jammers are far more useful on an extremely cheap troop that brings its own orders and has WIP 15 (and ... Smoke and ... E-Marat and ... Chain-Rifle and ... Dogged) than on an pretty expensive (23, respectively 29 points) troop with only WIP 13?

    Just some thoughts ... Ghazi are f**king good.
     
  12. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Should fatality Lvl2 be replaced with something else?
    Right now it doesn't feel fun for the haquislam player or his rival. It can be useless or extremely broken, and feels deeply unfair.
    Changing a core pillar of the game like the critical hit with fatality feels like a mistake.
     
    emperorsaistone likes this.
  13. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    I personally think Fatality level 2 shouldn't be on units with high burst weaponry. I feel they would work better on snipers, somehow seems to fit better and makes sniper ARO's a bit more threatening.

    I personally feel this is already the case. The ways I play the various sectorials vary a lot, but I can see why they would be very same-y if you build the core fireteam from a cheap LI base like Ghulams. I have to admit this is the current meta after mixed links becoming more and more prevalent. One or two key pieces backed up by line troopers in the link. On top of that Haqqislam IS the premier light infantry faction and as such, has a lot of light infantry fireteam options.

    Muyibs specifically provide a lot of tools on the table. If you're feeling cheeky you can place a giant minefield before moving up your fireteam, or get equipped with 0 SWC panzerfausts if you're expecting a lot of HI/TAGs on table. On top of that the link itself is surprising hard to remove thanks to all Muyibs having Dogged and Number 2. Nowadays they can also bring their big Asawira friend along for a ride, which operates in similar rangebands and benefits from the team thanks to its fury characteristic.
     
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  14. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    My opinion with the next profiles:

    Muttawia: they are strong but if you often play against them they are easy to kill most of the times. otherwise if corvus nerf them I want to see buf in haqqislam firepower or similar.

    Azarail: Needs some skills. (not veteran or minelayer).

    Maggy: I want to play him. (maybe all tags rework). Visor360 cheaper.

    Djanbazan: They are good but they cost so many points.

    Hakims: New profile with akbar doctor or just create another akbar doctor in haqqislam, feeling like aleph with 1 ODD unit.

    Farzan: Ava 2 in vanilla, (dreaming about farzan redfury, just dreaming)

    Govad: Good in sectorial but cant put them in vanilla.

    Yasbir: the linkable one with smoke granades, yasbir would see more table if he was cheaper.

    Muyibs: good in sectorial. I would love to see more VIRAL MINES in other units like alfasid for example.

    Ayyar: maybe a little bit cheaper namur is eclipsing him in vanilla.

    J. Hortlak: spitfire/redfury would be nice.

    kawarijs: they are awesome but expensive, i am just disappointed for the spitfire Fat n2 cant play ramah without them or sometimes vanilla(tariq). Fat n2 needs to change. Fat n1 is okei.

    Naffatum: dreaming about Viralthrower would be funny.

    Al fasid: Bad toolbox. not really working. just working in LI.

    Kasym beg: just need natural born warrior.

    Kums/twins: new profiles for seeing table. (I use them anyway)

    Zhayedan: REWORK. useless in general.

    SECTORIALS:

    HB: just fine with the new rework nice work.

    QK: Thinking about some nomad links. Azrail HARIS
    but good work with odaliscas anyway.

    RAMAH: Jenizaros / Hortlak HARIS or maybe hortlak linkable with something. Al fasid HARIS maybe with zhayedan or jenizaros. Zheyedan REWORK. Saytaniyah remote + ghulams(idea).

    (red things are the most disappointing things with haqqislam)
     
  15. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member

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    I get why people don’t like FAT2, but I think changing it would impact RTF a lot. The faction is clearly designed with the fact it has a FAT2 user in a link. If you were to remove FAT2 or change it majorly, RTF would definitely need better Long-range options and/or anti armor options. (Looking at you Zhayedan buffs)
     
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  16. Yog.0

    Yog.0 Member

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    [edit, posted in wrong thread]
     
  17. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    I know that fat2 its all in ramah but i think that is the problem. Why a sectorial goes around 2 profiles tariq and kawaijs spitfire? I cant say that is a good sectorial then.
     
  18. bouncl

    bouncl New Member

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    I think Haqq would benefit from some equipment and rule recosting.

    Automedkit and regeneration are the worst offenders, but I'd also like to see holo 1 and 2 made cheaper. I also think CC costs should be dropped across the board.

    I read in another thread that in the Daedelus Fall book, metachemistry is considered lower-tier bioengineering and that groups like haqq that have invested heavily in research have moved beyond it. I do agree, I would like to see more fun bio-engineered things however.
     
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  19. Ankaa

    Ankaa Well-Known Member

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    I think models most in need of a hotfix are the Zhayedan and the Ayyar as there is currently no reason at all to field either. That is a very unique place to be in Infinity and it is made even more unfortunate by the fact that they each have some of the best sculpts in the entire game let alone the faction. The Ayyar is in dire need of a proper loadout, Spitfire, Red Fury or even a Mk12. Any one of these would actually allow the Ayyar to leverage it's SSL2. There's no reason at all to pay so much for a 2 wound specialist with good BS if all it has is a pea shooter.

    The Zhayedan I have nothing new to add other than what we've been saying forever. I recognize that AutoMedikit is a tool used to adjust points costs when needed but I don't see why a fragile, 1 wound LI needs to be punished in this manner since they really don't bring anything else to the table (save for the MML2 profile).

    Granted those are the only models that need triage care in my opinion and even if they are totally ignored Haqq and it's sectorials are and will still be perfectly fine. Now onto to some totally baseless wishlisting!

    • More Viral Weaponry: I don't expect an HMG or anything and I realize the design space on Viral is limited, but this feels like one of the things that gives us our feel as a faction and I'd like to see more.
    • Eclipse Smoke, White Noise, Albedo, ANYTHING to let us deal with MSV: I know it's higher than average tech for our faction. That's ok, it can be one profile, it can cost a bunch of SWC, whatever needs to be done. I think it's strange that we have access to Nimbus but not Eclipse.
    • More Akbar Doctors: Pleeeeeease?
    • More profiles for the Hortlak: I put this under wishlisting because I don't think it's a case like the Ayyar where they are pointless, there are a couple solid profiles in there that have their applications and worst case they can slip into a Jann link on the cheap. But I do think it's a missed opportunity for such a cool model to have such narrow uses. Maybe a hacker profile?
    • A sub 20 point Hacking Device: I might be getting too greedy here but it feels like BHD's are getting cheaper and more optimized and we are kinda left out in the cold. 20 points to buff your remote feels kinda expensive in this day and age.
     
  20. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    First. You should buy a barrel of salt. You'll need a lot of it for each post you read.

    My best hope is that Corvus Belli continues to provide a story and thus a context for how all of this sort of thing comes about. All the rest of the micro managing alternates between boring me and enraging me. I want the units to spring out of that story and give me a feeling of place.

    I'd like to see Corvus Belli revisit and reevaluate all of the core assumptions of their point formula. There is clearly a divergence of view between the forum users and that of the designers. See if those can be brought more into alignment. If CB disagrees maybe the scenarios need to make the assumed value more obvious. I'd like to see that formula (when updated) actually applied to the entire line. Backdated and everything. And kept.

    Review skills for validity. For example, Marksmanship lvl1 has no purpose. Just give shock ammo.
     
    #20 Papa Bey, Aug 8, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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