Hello fellow Haqqislam commanders and enthusiasts, In the light of the recent events of the Japanese Uprising and ensuing debates concerning Yu Jing's "identity", I have seen many debates here (here meaning the forums as a whole) concerning what many see as an overly negative representation of Yu Jing as a whole. Some vocal members of the community pointed out the fact that Yu Jing seems to be quite often depicted as a "villain" and that it is mostly the negative aspects of Yu Jing's society and culture that seem to be put forward and depicted. Without going into the Yu Jing subject again (which seems to be quite sensitive) this had me thinking about Haqqislam, and the way it is depicted in the fluff. Whereas most of the human factions (and to some extent CA and Tohaa) seem to have "two sides" to their coin, meaning that they have shades of grey to their society and culture and cannot be categorised as either "good" or "evil" in the way that it is possible to do in other much more Manichaean fictional settings, I can't help but feeling that Haqqislam seem a lot like "the good guys". Even the Assassins seem like they're doing everything they are doing to "further humanity on the path to knowledge" and to topple evil corporations. So my questions to you: -Does that idea come from my obvious bias as a Haqqislam enthusiast? -Is there an overly positive representation of Happ in the fluff? Or did my brain just conveniently forget some horrible deeds in Haqq's fluff? -How do you feel about this? -Do you think anything could be highlighted as the "dark side" of Haqqislam? (in the same way Yu Jing's Oppressive society could be, or PanO's disregard for Ateks, etc) p.s.: not trying to start a "Haqq is better" thread, I actually like my fictional cultures to have various shades, and am wondering about Haqqislam whose fluff, identity and general feel I really love. p.p.s.: (kind of the opposite here, but still love that clip)
The darkest piece I remember is murdering the rector of the Quebec university because he cut funding to the non-marketable careers. And that's offset because noone likes Quebecans*, rectors**, or corporate sellouts***. *Joke **Half joke ***True AFAIK
This is the main thing that sticks out really, beyond all the extra-legal actions taken on by deniable assets which every faction is guilty of. Killing people outside of your "jurisdiction" is... Problematic.
I remember a similar discussion sparked in the Old Forum amongst similar lines. . . There is plenty of "Bad Stuff done for the Right Reasons" (the WHOLE Hashashin Bahram M.O. and their total disregard for the blatancy of "Public Executions" against culprits families and aquaintances; Odalisques being "Trophy Babes transformed into Lethal Weapons" but for Bodyguarding Roles; enhancement of Gene-Engineered Supersoldiers that will make blush the Chimeras of Bakunin) and "Good Stuff done for the Wrong Reasons" (Janissaries being "Brainwashed Orphans" and "Child-Soldier Slaves"; Silk Monopoly employed as a stranglehold by Unscrupolous Merchant Princes; the treatment of Ahl-Fassed and Azrails as disposable soldiers alike the Wumings of Yu-Jing; the WHOLE Ghazi Muttawiah issue to have started as a kind of "Isis Suicide Bombers" vibe). . . But there are PLENTY of "Gray Area" that could be considered in ANY direction with just a little push. . . The Kapu-Kalqi could be stalwart defenders of Merchantile Freedom or being "Paid Thugs" who guard shipments of Slaves, Co-Opted Prostitutes, Illegal Smuggled Goods and all manner of "Bad Fantasy Guild Material"; the Kums could be the worst scum of the Desert Raiders like the R.W. Bastards that harass and prey on Economic Immigrants on today's Subsaharian Africa, or could be "Romantically Idealized" kind of "Free People of the Desert" like a sort of crossbreed between Robin Hood and Sinbad / Aladdin / Ali Baba. . . But I personally believe that Haqqislam as is intended is Educate, Gentle, Caring and UTTERLY Dedicated to the "Humanist Advancement" (even for the Kaffir Unbelievers gain !!) UNTIL some dork decide is amusing to take jokes to the "Single Planet Semi-Ateks" and THEN the uglier parts of that Culture are ready to do a lot of "Accidental Collateral Damage". . . Is as if Haqqislam is like a Gilded Scimitar, elegant and decorated, with precious gems inlaid in the Hilt and a whole slew of Wise "Sufi Proverbs" is carefully, painstakingly inlaid in the Damascene Blade. . . . . .But DO NOT mistake it for a purely "Ornamental Wall-Trophy" because the EDGE of that elegant sword is Monomolecular and laced with the most lethal, noxious Viral Toxins !! . . . . . Like as many Weapons of Human History it is all in the INTENT of the Wielder: Is that Virulent Scimitar employed as a W.M.D. against Hapless Targets. . ? Or will be wielded by a Righteous Champion to shield and defend the Oppressed. . .?? Or, even better, used as a Scalpel Tool by a Competent Surgeon to remove an hideous "Alien Parasyte" Carcinogenic Mass of Tumors, excising JUST what is needed to keep the WHOLE rest of the Body safe, sane and clean. . . . .???
They are gray, just like everyone else. Sure, Haqq does a lot of good stuff, but they also have a lot of skeletons. They support organized piracy, enlisting Kum, Al Fasid, working with slavers, Hassassins, Druze and doing crap so bad that Lunah switched over to ISS. It speaks volumes to me that someone would rather work for ISS rather than their native people after they had her do something so unsavory.
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yes, a Human Faction based on Humanism will by default be the Good Guys. Our goal is the Advancement of Science and Technology at the Service of Humanity. It's not by chance we have the Best Doctors, most accomplished Engineers and most competent IT service (all around WIP 14 atest to that) Even our shadier elements are striving to make the Human Sphere a better place. It is not the poor or the hungry, the Hassassins ask for. It is not the tired or the sick they want. It is the corrupt they claim. It is the evil they seek. And when (if) Humanity is rid of those who prey on the weak, the Hassassins will gladly fade into the pages of History. Do we have corruption? Yes. But we don't even let a Sultan run amok for long. Do we have criminals? Of course. But that doesn't mean it's our culture. Do we do business with shady people? By necesity. Haqqislam is a small Nation, controlling only one planet. One desertic, arid, barren planet. Sometimes we need to trade with whomever we can. And if all that doesn't convince you, we have Odalisques and Poligamy.
If nothing else there is a grey element in the man in the mountain. Is it a man? an AI in hiding? What is its agenda? Why must it remain hidden from the other powers?
But is Ras Al Ghul Immortal? Are his methods Supernatural? Like the man himself said: Theatricallity and Deception are powerful agents against the Uniniciated. When you are the leader of the group that eliminates the people that can't be stopped by less extreme methods, anonymity is an effective shield from retaliation. IIRC, that was the principle behind Elliot Ness' "Untouchables"
An opinion. Sometimes I feel like real life problems have some bearing on what you can or shouldn't really "badmouth" in your work of fiction. Fictional Islamic state is a decent candidate for a topic to be delicate about. But at least the result is a faction that takes refugees from the world of grimdark trends in fiction, that is still nuanced and not that cliché. Historical references are also rich and inspirational.
I think there are some bits and pieces of grey. Through their policies on the Caravanserai and the authority of Trade Diwan to issue Haqqislamite flags freely they support piracy and smuggling operations 'throughout the Human Sphere. They openly use and shelter corsairs, offering them contracts as privateers. The existence and operation of the Merchant Guilds makes commercial corruption endemic and systematic, while at the same time ensuring that ongoing conflict between the Guilds keeps it from overwhelming the democracy. In practice the very operation of the system which permits immortality in the Infinity universe is in the hands of those who are motivated only by personal profit. Haqqislam maintains the largest standing army in the Human Sphere, significant elements of which are irregular forces over whom there is little to no disciplinary oversight. On the field they hold themselves to high standards, but these are undermined by the choices of weapons and personnel which they direct against their enemies. The official intelligence agency of the Haqqislam government does not directly report to any democratic authority and takes it upon itself to identify, authorise and execute operations of all kinds both within and without Haqqislamite territory. Entire segments of the population on Bourak live lives little better than the contemporaries of Muhammed. The Bedouin and Tuareg of the Taba desert, the scattered citizens of mostly abandoned Amal, residents of the Gabqar Khanate denied the benefits of terraforming in order to maintain the Nassiat in its natural environment... Haqqislam isn't all love and kisses. But, yeah, it's fair to say that it's all a "lighter shade of grey".
Yeah, I'd say Haqqislam aren't the Good Guys, just Less Evil. I think it's a combination of a few factors: 1. CB doesn't want to go down the usual trope of 'Muslim fanatics = bad guys', so they probably tread carefully when phrasing Haqq in a bad light. 2. Haqqislam is smaller than YJ and PanO, who can both do 'evil things' with more impunity, so Haqq needs to be far more discrete in whatever horrid things it does. As a smaller power, Haqq probably needs to tread on fewer toes, so acts as a King Maker more than a Big Player, I imagine. Though, they have the Hassassins and Fiday. They meet their quota on state-sanctioned murder, no doubt. 3. Remember that Major Lunah fled from Haqqislam into YJ's arms after she found out how much murdering Haqq actually does.
Yes. Now stop this damnable, self-absorbed navel-gazing and deploy your fiday where it can slaughter all of your opponent's order monkeys in a devastating alpha strike. Or send the parricidal Kasym Beg to mow them down. Or 'reach out and touch someone' with the biological weaponry of your Lasiq sniper. Also: It is Quebecois, you Espanolianese. Show some respect for the True Canadians. Get their name right.
Like many of the later repliers said: Indeed, we are the Good Guys. But so could be any of the other Factions of the Human Sphere. It all comes down to those immortal words of General Obi-Wan Kenobi: "...many of the truths that we cling to depend greatly on our Point of View" We are the Good Guys. Our Concillium-Banned underbarrel Light Shotguns ahould have been a dead giveaway.
The summary and philosophy of Haqqislam is the Good Guys. The actual truth of Haqqislam and their myriad mercenaries, and factions, are another thing. Are we better than others? Yes, we are better than others, but I wouldn't call Haqqislam the legitimate "good guys". There are no real "Good Guys". I mean really....have you met the Fidays???
The Haqqislam publicly acknowledges that it has agents all around the inner sphere who could murder you at any given moment. But we also have silk...so how loudly are you going to complain if we make sure it is just the bad guys that get got? We have a lot of good going for us, but we also have plenty of dodgy behaviour. We aren't the Good Guys, as there is no such thing. But we are trying to be the Better Guys. Well most of us. Do not pay any attention to the men behind the curtain. Definitely is not a Chinese Space Pirate, and I can assure that while the Druze he is speaking too is bad...they could be worse.
The Hassasins definitely ssem like the types who say that they are a net positive influence on humanity, and that they do what they do out of genuine ideals, rather than naked self interest.
I agree with this 100%. Haqqislam to the rest of the Human Sphere, and beyond; "We're better than you."
