I’ve been wondering just how much does HI and IA in particular need be scared of hacking? I’ve tried out a Zhencha only once so far but I’ve mainly been more afraid of Jammers and other E/M, than of hacking. I’ve tried hacking opponents before and found that it’s really not that big of deal and harder than you think. Below I’ve outlined some of the devices and programs that specifically target HI. Hacking Device Gotcha!: Dmg13, B2, Immobilize 1, 2 turns HD+ Gotcha!: Dmg13, B2, Immobilize 1, 2 turns Oblivion: Dmg16, B1, Isolate AHD Gotcha!: Dmg13, B2, Immobilize 1, 2 turns Oblivion: Dmg16, B1, Isolate Basilisk: Dmg13, B3, Immobilize 1, 2 turns Carbonite: +3 hack mod, Dmg13, B2, DT ammo & Immobilize 1 KHD/EVO/White/Defensive None So first off we see NONE of the hacking programs can kill an HI unless he is a hacker themselves. They can Immobilize 1, which can be Reset out of and only lasts one or two turns, depending. Isolate sucks but it’s not the end of the world either. Also, both can be fixed by an Engineer. However sometimes the reset is better than the Engineer. Second, we can always do a Reset against the hacking, making it a f2f roll. Third, almost all of the troops have at least BTS3. No idea why Haidao is 0, but whatever. In addition to those things: If you have an EVO running Reboot it gives a +3 to ALL Reset rolls. Fairy Dust gives a +3 to BTS, and -3 to the hacker, Effects ALL HI! Tinbot B, gives a -6 to the hacker (does not stack with fairy dust) As pointed out, I'm wrong. It's Kaleidoscope it doesn't stack with, which only affects your hacker. It’s order intensive to try to immobilize a HI and then try to kill it after. Many times it’s just better to kill it with an HMG.
It's not active turn hacking that you need to worry about, it's reactive hacking and the isolated state. You can reset to slowly and hopefully make your way through it, but it'll eat orders something fierce.
Due to killer hackers I hardly ever see AHD and only 2 forces have HD+ and you can take measures to watch out for them.
As @Mahtamori says, it's the ARO hacking is the real issue. It acts as area denial and stops you from advancing your HI or moving them into positions to defend ground/objectives. Trying to move through it destroys your order efficiency. Trying to have a gunfight with somebody while some nerd with a regular HD is just spamming Gotcha at you is problematic.
It doesn't seem much worse than mines or other things you may need to dodge against. I can't even remember the last time I had someone try to hack my HI. My other hackers yes.
Good post, friend! Could you explain why Deflector L2 and Fairy Dust don't stack? I thought only mods of the same type didn't stack. Fairy Dust grants Firewall to all HIs, while Deflector L2 just states the Hacker gets a -6 to the corresponding modifier. Is there a rulling somewhere or a FAQ that I missed? Thanks!
Mary Problems is really common to the point where I suspect that people have stopped playing Bakunin and Corregidor simply because Mary exists, otherwise yes it is a meta thing. Edit: and Hecklers. My meta isn't choke full of hackers simply because I play Yu Jing :p
Because you only have to dodge a mine once. You have to keep resetting constantly against hackers if you don't blow their brains out. Trying to run a 5 man link through a 17" repeater zone, do the math on how many orders you lose to resetting on that until you get all 5 guys through it. And this is assuming you don't fail once and get immobilised. You lose even more orders if you have to waste time winning a reset roll to unimmobilize your troopers.
@Mahtamori is correct. I thought it was those 2. They would be truly Invincible against hacking. Fairy Dust -3 to hacker, Reboot +3 to reset, Deflector additional -6 to hacker. so -9 to the hack to your +3 with the Reset. At most, if using Carbonite they would then be at -6. Then even if it does get through it's +3 to your BTS.
That's not a mission. That's any game where some dickhead Hunzakut or Zero or Guilang starts crawling around on rooftops planting deployable repeaters. Or a Barid or Tsyklon puts a Pitcher where you can't reach it easily. Try getting inside an objective room if your opponent beats you there and sets up a repeater on the wall facing your side of the table. You get hacked constantly just trying to get to the damn door let alone open it. There's a reason HI links need KHD support otherwise they get locked down by repeaters they can't reach.
They'll be using Oblivion for the most part because you can't reset out of that one and it'll cancel your fireteam. And Jammer if they're Haqq, Pan-O or Nomads But each time you win a Reset roll, your opponent has delayed you. You didn't shoot, you didn't move-move. That's similar to a Warcor, the game's most cost effective defensive unit, except the Repeater and Hacker doesn't go away in a puff of blood-colour smoke if you win the FTF.
You can reset in response to oblivion, but if it effects you (i.e. you fail your reset and bts roll) you can't reset out of the isolated state like you can with Imm 1.
Thanks for the clarification! I used the Dice Calculator to check percentages between a Zuyong with Fairy Dust and Deflector L2 against Mary Problems attempting to Oblivion him: if the Zuyong does nothing against it (either moves or moves and shoots for example), Mary has a 15% chance of success. If it Resets, that goes down to 9%. I don't dislike those odds, really! Also, a note on Jammers: keep in mind that it counts as a BS attack, so, if you get LoF against the Jammer, you can actually shoot it and make it a F2F roll. Great thread, OP! We needed a place to discuss all this stuff now that IA is out there :)
Okay here's the thing. If you don't get repeaters or AHD in most of your games: exploit the ever living hell out of it. Go wild until they learn.
You don't need to match attack types for FTF. It's sufficient that you affect each other. Shooting the hacker that's trying to Spotlight you is a FTF.
Side not, but Blackout is also a real threat for IA since it can disable TinBots which are comms equipement. As for the threat degree, I'm not that worried about zuyongs, 'cause even though it's annoying and your opponent might be lucky it's really easy to drop a Tinbot-B in the link since all possible bearers comes with orders shenanigans, so they should be able to work around it, even without a KHD (not that i'd do it without a KHD, even though statistically speaking it would be reasonnable i'd rather prepare for the worse) . It's for those mowang, zhencha, hulang and Liu-xing who don't have a TinBot that i'm worried. Both the zhencha and hulang have stealth, which is nice, but some repeaters in just the right places can stop them from doing their job. How hard the Liu-xing is screwed by hacking has already been discussed on another thread, and the result was: a lot. As for the Mowang, well he'll seriously need someone to do a bit of clean-up before him, because i sure as hell ain't risking my mowang in a repeater if i suspect there might be some AHD hiding somewhere. ATM, i start almost all my lists with those 3 guys, just to be sure that i'm not defenseless if i fall against hacking or E/M heavy lists: Have you tried turning it off and on again? ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) 0.5 SWC | 75 Points Open in Infinity Army (There should be a daoying too, but that's not relevant with the topic at hand)
