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Hacker Champ Faction?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by ObviousGray, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Me and my comrades enjoying a little break after gaming day, loathing geeky chatter led to some fun topic; so whos the best hacking faction?

    The good ol' Nomads, shiney ALEPH, Aliens?

    It was fun thing to chat about, and I'd like to start the fire going. The factors were;

    Which faction is the most able one to reach enemy Hackables easily?
    Which faction is the most able one to make hacking attacks deadly, like Lightening?
    Which faction got the best hacking unit IYO?


    P.S) I had to ask this since two drunkards started to argue hard. Yes they were Nomad player and ALEPH player.
     
    Maksimas likes this.
  2. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    Before Mary problens i could say that aleph and nomads where more or less equal.

    With the new Mary problems for me, nomads win. Not just for quality (Aleph can more or less feel heavy hacers to), Nomads win for how easy they can spam hackers without going full hacking based list.

    Mary problems (probably beacuse i don't play nomads, but for me a must) , interventor, cheap KHD bandit and zeros( botj not the best KHD but very cheap and usfull specialist),

    Aleph hackers are very good to but except for scylla and the danavas the other optipns are porfiles that you must choose ( for example the deva or the Asura, both are good but you won't go with the hacker one always).

    More or less happens with the CA. The aspects are very good hackers (they are with all) but still weak against KHD. And the KHD of the CA by even if good are limited to characters or porfiles like rodoks not easy to spam.
     
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  3. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I played both Nomads and Aleph and faced CA a few time.

    I think Nomad is the best at hacking because :
    - the best repeater coverage in the game (AD repeater, infiltrator with repeater, fast offensive drone with repeater, camo SK with deployable repeater)
    - it has the best KHD access : zero and heckler for cheap KHD SK, mary problem and interventor for stronger KHD
    - it has the easiest access to HD+ (with all the utilities that come with it)

    Nomad and hacking are like Pano and shooting. Other faction can do it, but they are the one tailored for it.

    Regarding best hacker of the game :
    - HD/HD+ : interventor because high WIP, crazy high BTS, lieutenant order
    - KHD : heckler KHD (because of cybermine making him able to pseudo-hack HI/TAG and good BS + mimetism make him a good secondary attacker) OR bit and kiss (because pitcher + deployable repeater minelayer + repeater ghost synchro maker her a one woman interdiction zone)
    - AHD : proxy mk2 AHD. TO + AHD + high WIP give him a crazy ability to ambush an unsuspecting TAG/HI
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Why are Haqq so seldom mentioned in these discussions? Consistently high WIP, good pitcher distribution and surprisingly often decent BTS

    That said, yeah, Mary solidifies Nomad dominance in this contest, even if Kerr Nau gives her a run for her money.
     
    #4 Mahtamori, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    'No one outhacks Nomads'

    I don't actually agree that the best KHD or AHD are in Nomads, but I do believe they have the better kit overall. The combination of cheap hackers with Infiltration, powerful backline hackers and a whole host of repeaters and pitchers means these guys are actually pretty good at table coverage and bringing hackers to bear where they'll cause the most damage.

    ALEPH comes in close, and there's a ghost contender that's Haqqislam thanks to their high native willpower. But overall Nomads still takes the cake.
     
  6. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Because : Low repeater coverage (pitcher need to pass a BS roll and have LoF, moran doesn't), no SK KHD, no HD +, only basics drone to use HD potential to its fullest, no high BTS hacker
     
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  7. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I think Nomads have a better variety of Hackers, aleph are only strong due to their high wip and BTS, but I actually would not rate them very high due to how hard it is to get a hacking net out for them. I would contend that Haqq outhack Aleph for the following reasons:

    1. Barids are very cheap, high wip, and all have pitchers. Further each Barid has an upgrade, be it Lighning on KHD, or Icebreaker, on AHD. Both very powerful programs.
    2. Hunzakuts. They come with Repeaters AND Mines, and Camoflouge. They infiltrate and can in only a couple of orders, set up repeaters right at the enemy DZ.
    3. Natively high WIP across the faction, and all of their hackers are cheap, meaning a higher saturation of devices. Mary Problems could indeed kill on in face to face....but she would have to contend with multiples back.

    I would rate Hacking factions:
    1. Nomads (Thanks Tunguska)
    2. Haqqislam
    3. Combined Army (better pitcher/repeater and hacker coverage, stronger individual hackers)
    4. Aleph (Strong hackers, but each hacker is expensive and low AVA)
     
  8. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    How 'bout the program Maestro? Boy that program hurt a lot.
     
  9. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I think Haaq has a couple of good units (Barids are insanely min-maxed for their jobs) and high WIP across the faction is good, but in terms of the ability to do the most damage with the least investment of orders, Nomads is at the top. A nomad list is going to have at least 1-2 repeaters in the midfield powering a bunch of dumb WIP14 hackers in the backline. I don't like Interventors, but a well defended Interventors with a midfield full of Morans, Zeroes and Bandits isn't going to be challenged by much.

    I think YJ should get a mention due to the Guilang FO/Deployable Repeater and the Kanren AHD (which I think is one of the best AHD in the game.) There's also dumb stuff you can do with Biolocator and a Su Jian.
     
  10. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Nomads have the cheapest Repeater coverage and cheap awesome hackers.

    CA has probably better hackers but they're more expensive and they have less broad access to awesome Repeater coverage. But they are still really good at hacking.

    ALEPH has really good hackers, and is kind of a midpoint between Nomads and CA.

    Ultimately though, almost any faction can be good at infowar if they invest. A Zulu Cobra KHD, Croc Man AHD and EVO hacker will make VIRD a strong infowar force.
     
  11. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Question 1 is Nomads, easily. Morans alone make their repeater coverage insane and they don't have to spend orders to do it.

    Question 2 is a little trickier. It's between Aleph for the Dasyus and Onyx for Kerr-Nau. One gets a HD KHD on a high WIP, NWI model. The other gets a sixth sense 2 with high WIP and Maestro. I'd give the edge to Aleph just because you don't see the Dasyus coming.

    Question 3 is without a doubt Nomads, the interventor is absolutely disgusting as a toolbox LT. Between white noise, buffs, cybermasks, and being resilient to hacking assasinations, it gets to use an LT order to provide all it's benefits.
     
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  12. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    I'd debate easiest access. The cheapest Interventor is only 1 point less than the Danavas who also has Maestro for better anti-hacker duty.
     
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  13. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Onyx. Thanks to the eDrone being viable against anyone with a link and a few other little interactions, Onyx can build a list that is genuinely good and sacrifices little, has valid infowar against almost every list in the game except vanilla ariadna, any cannot be outhacked by anyone except a hypothetical nomad list that would probably still only fight them on even terms thanks to your repeater placement dominance (which I know because I've run it into high-end but not overblown infowar nomads and crushed them).
     
    #13 RobertShepherd, Feb 21, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Here's a sample Onyx infowar list.

    Couple of notes. Firstly, it's got an incredible Pitcher dispenser with Kerr-Nau who is BS15 in link and burst 2. He has no trouble accepting the range penalty and popping a repeater in the enemy DZ in one order. And if he fails you have baggage, which combined army doesn't have to take a bad model to fit.

    Secondly, with Kaelidoscope (or Firewall, if you don't need it), Maestro, and the Tinbot, Kerr-Nau is stacking +3 / -9 on every hacking attack regardless of whether the enemy has a KHD or not. Thanks to your repeater dominance, you'll choose those fights against most enemies. Also you can reroll failed hacking rolls. Also you have two backup EI KHDs in the form of those Rodoks.

    Thirdly you've got hacking that works against TAGs (it's very possible to possess an enemy TAG in two or three orders at the start of the first turn), heavy infantry, link teams of any type, enemy MSVs, and if you don't need any of that all your KHDs are still awesome combat models (Kerr-Nau is a five-man linked plasma rifle and those Rodok are just awesome close quarters fighters) and your other hackers are awesome support models.

    Onyx Contact Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    KERR-NAU (UPGRADE: White Noise) Plasma Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    UNIDRON K1 Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 17)
    UNIDRON Plasma Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 24)
    UNIDRON Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 18)
    UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    RODOK (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #14 RobertShepherd, Feb 21, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  15. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I feel like Invincible Army deserves a special mention because in some circumstances they actually feel like cheating and not something that should've been implemented in the game.

    Using the Lt. to put up Fairy Dust + Tinbot B + Redrum is just absurd and basically nulifies any hacking from the game.

    Hăidáo KHD: I use Redrum
    Interventor: HAHAHAHA! YOU FOOL! YOU DARE CHALLENGE ME?! PREPARE TO FACE MY-
    Hăidáo KHD: You have -12...
    Interventor: W-what?!

    I mention this because I friggin' hate KHD's, because they make hacking battles very one-sided and often boring and the Hăidáo KHD with the Tinbot just amplifies that feeling for me by tenfolds.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's a very strong mitigating factor, then, that IA Repeater presence is abysmal, which means something is going to have to walk up to that Interventor and you get to shoot or Jam that thing on the way in.

    This dynamic is there for basically any Killer Hacker, though, where a normal HD or an AHD has a massive disadvantage - particularly if forced to fight through an enemy Repeater.

    P.s. seems like Skullbuster is more likely the better choice against Interventors. It increases odds of harming goes from 49% to 55% and of being harmed from 7% to 9% (assuming Sucker Punch response)
    p.p.s. Zhencha, without Surprise Attack and both getting cover, has similar odds at killing the Interventor at 49% vs 13%
     
  17. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    That's a good point, but I don't think Kaleidoscope stacks with the repeater penalty.

    I did the math in excel at one point and skullbuster is the best choice if your WIP has been brought to 8 or lower, or if your WIP has been brought to 12 or below AND the target BTS is 9 or above (so exactly the scenario you described with the interventor). Otherwise redrum all day every day.
     
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  18. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Except Lightning in ARO or Maestro aginst targets that are not V:NWI
     
  19. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, math was done under the assumption that you have access to neither since most KHD's don't.
     
  20. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    True but from my own experience, in local games as well a tournament, your link is quickly in your opponent's deployment zone. There are actually quite few things, except HD ML's, that stops that link in their tracks. You don't even have to walk up to that Interventor as chances are that he's most likely bringing a Moran and you can just use that repeater against him, or milk the 5+ repeater REM's that usually clutters a Nomads Deployment/midfield.