I have noticed many players seem to use the Grenzer the way they would an intruder or sin eater and are disappointed when it proves it is not the stand alone ARO piece they wanted it to be. This I feel, is the wrong way to play Grenzers. Grenzers need to be used in the active turn, when they can leaverage full burst and cover the most effectively. I feel players should really give Grenzers a try as members of a Securitate fireteam. It’s a great way to grant +1 burst and +3BS and really turn Grenzers into terrifying threats. I have been doing this for a while now and it has been very successful. The two links I enjoy are below. The first is a more long range like that can pound away threats from afar, and open up space for your Kriza to do work. The second is an aggressive front line unit that goes hunting, relying on the great stats the Grenzer gets from link bonus to out gun most things in the game. Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska──────────────────────────────────────────────────5 SECURITATE Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) SECURITATE Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GRENZER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) GRENZER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) 3 SWC | 101 PointsOpen in Infinity Army And Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska──────────────────────────────────────────────────5 SECURITATE Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GRENZER Spitfire / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 1.5 SWC | 84 PointsOpen in Infinity Army You can flush them out with whatever extras you desire, but this core has been serving me well. I wanted to add that it’s important to note how much support Grenzers get by being with Securitate. They might not seem like much, but with link bonus, their humble combo rifles are very good at dealing with whatever would be sent after the Grenzer.
I like the Grenzers so far. However their points are just too high at the moment. They are slow, have no immunities (especially against Shock) and just one wound. The benefit however is a special 'hunting' profile they provide against that Mimetism/Camo spam these days and against Tohaa with the high BTS and template weapons. This being said, I would play such a fireteam: Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 GRENZER Spitfire / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) GRENZER (Forward Observer, Sensor) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SECURITATE (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) SECURITATE Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) PERSEUS FTO (Fireteam: Haris) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / 2 Pistols, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 33) 2.5 SWC | 127 Points Open in Infinity Army The Feuerbach would be my ARO piece. Securitate Repeater for that White Noise tricks, Spitfire Grenzer for the damage, FO Grenzer for Sensor skill and templates, Perseus for Smoke and Myrmidon things. :) Really hoping for an Interventor Wildcard though to fit the Tunguska artwork from last year and because noone will play a full Grenzer fireteam.
I've played this one and had some fun with it: Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska──────────────────────────────────────────────────6 GRENZER (Forward Observer, Sensor) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) GRENZER Spitfire / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) SECURITATE (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) SECURITATE Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 2.5 SWC | 120 PointsOpen in Infinity Army Main idea was to have a 5 man linked Feuerbach perched on a roof for ARO/street sweeping. When he inevitably dropped I was able to reform and push forward with the rest of the link. It worked well, the sensor and repeater both proved their worth in the midfield, and if it weren't for some really bad luck I'm sure the spitfire would have held its own as well. In particular Tunguska seems to struggle for orders, having the sensor Grenzer lends itself perfectly to running Transductors to expose camo and fluff your order pool. I also brought an Interventor Lt so I had the option to go 3 man core with the Grenzers after the Securitate Feuerbach dropped. I didn't end up using it that way but its nice to have options.
i really like the grenzer FO/Sensor in a link. I don't use them much as ARO piece because they are costly points to lose in ARO and drops the +3BS link bonus when the link goes active turn advance. I also like their inclusion of LFT to corner-guard the linkteam's advance.
I think the biggest issue with Grenzers is that they are pretty expensive in a faction of a lot of good expensive units. The most common time I use a Grenzer is for the FO/Sensor to buddy up with Perseus in an aggressive link. I almost always choose Perseus over a single Grenzer in the link, he provides a lot of versatility with his smoke, CC, “2nd wound”, and he is just a plain better gunfighter unless he is shooting into MSV2.
I absolutely agree with the OP, Grenzers in Securitate fireteams are really really good. I like the Sniper and Spitfire myself, for active turn killing. The Sniper can also be a powerful reactive piece due to it's awesome range and hitting power (BS 16 with MSV1 and SSL2 is very nice). The Grenzers aren't that expensive and the Securitate keep the team cost low; a Shotgun Repeater and potential LT are good extras to the Grenzers, and Perseus really rounds that team out IMO.
Do you use both Grenzers at once? I am tempted to try the Grenzer Spitfire, do you also use the Kriza to deal with long range threats?
I do indeed! For long range threats I tend to like the Spektr Sniper but the Kriza is also great for that role too. Scenario is also important, for something like Quadrant Control the Kriza is a great datatracker for controlling zones too so they fulfill various roles, it is my mobile aggressive shooter where the team wants to stay back a bit. Although actually the Grenzer Sniper with B3, BS 16 and MSV1 will often remove any long range nastiness from the board.
Honestly, the problem with Grenzers is that it is just too expensive. Single wound and with no visual mods means that he can't really stack mods to be efficient. The MULTI Sniper Has +1BS and MSV1 over a securitate on the offensive.... and he costs a whole 50% more. That is the problem - its *way* more expensive than securitates, for very little bonus. The spitfire also usually compares poorly with the securitate HMG, as it is a weaker weapon and the longer HMG range helps a lot because you usually do not want a light infantary link moving up the table simply because it is very vulnerable to infiltrators. The only things that they do that is not really emulated by much cheaper securitate is the biometric visor - *very* situational, sensor + fo ( actually a pretty good grenzer profile, and nearly the only one I use) and light flamethrowers - although you do have better sources or DTW in zondnauticas. So yeah... they are generally a upgrade on the position a securitate fills, but they are just so much more expensive that it is hardly ever worth it.
I pretty much only put the BMV grenzer in my fireteams for anti speculo/fiday duty or the FO for sensor, but for the most part i find them to be overcosted paper weights. In active they have a spitfire, the securitate packs a HMG and is cheaper, in ARO the grenzer has a ML and a MSR, the 'tates have a FB (which is a better weapon than the ML) and their own MSR. Also if you are running the repeater in the link to white noise stuff then it makes the big gun carrying grenzer useless. also, it doesnt have veteran.
Little bit off topic, but where you guys get those missile launcher Grenzers? Can I use one of hollow men to proxy them?
You can proxy any mini as any other mini of the same size as long as you tell your opponent that's what you're doing during deployment. Beyond that the general etiquette is to keep things as clear as possible. So if you're running any Hollowmen in the list then you shouldn't use one as a proxy. I generally just try to proxy the same unit type (LI, MI, HI, etc) so it looks like the proper threat at a glance. For example: My Securitate are actually Alguaciles and my Grenzers are Sekbans. Combined with open communication this keeps things clear on the table.
I'm glad I found this thread. I've been thinking of throwing a Grenzer into my Securitate / Perseus fireteam, but was really second-guessing myself because of their cost. The 27 point Sensor/FO/LFT version is the one I'm looking at adding, for cost and utility alone. Most folks seem to be talking about the bigger guns - does anyone other than Wyrmnax have experience with this particular version?
Yes. The sensor troop is fantastic for an aggressive "Securitate" link. It's everything you want in the midfield: specialist, template weapon, MSV, good BS at the proper range band. Also works perfectly with the Securitate repeater BSG and/or a transductor cheerleader/fast sniffer and repeater. I value this profile more than Kriza.
It's a fantastic profile. People forget about just how awesomely good it is against any camo troops, in the five man link it discovers camo markers up to 32" away in cover on a 19!
And within zone of control + sniffer ZoC it reveals camo tokens on 19's without discover. Don't know what that corner camo token is? Uncover it before moving into line of sight. This profile in a midfield link may be my favorite part of Tunguska after the HM paintrain.
Yeah it's not a cheap tool but it's an extremely flexible and varied one. It's basically a classic Nomad MI profile tbh; relatively squishy but with a great combination of gear, skills and stats that make it broadly useful and good. If you want to run a Securitate/Grenzer team that is very much midfield support rather than long ranged fire, profiles like the Grenzer FO and the Securitate Repeater are awesome. Then you can focus your firepower on guys like the Kriza Boracs, Tsyklon and Spektr Sniper.
I've been having a pretty good run with the grenzer sensor in a fire team full of securitates + repeater, HMG, Percy etc. I find it gives a toolbox of options. Grenzer is nice for high bs attack (bs16, b4 combi is good) or throw white noise and attack either with HMG if shooting at msv stuff or with Percy to apply ODD debuff. I did have a game where my grenzer used his sensor and rolled 20 though.
