With the new 1.2 FAQ, BS Attacks with Templates now follow a different set of requirement timings as other BS Attacks. BS Attack (no template) may be declared at any time, and their requirements are only checked at resolution. BS Attack (template) may only be declared if the template matches all the placement requirement at the time of declaration. - - - - - This creates the following scenario... Trooper A : A fusilier Trooper B : A Highlander Trooper A is behind a corner in ZoC of Trooper B Trooper A declares BS Attack with their combi rifle. Trooper B cannot throw a Smoke Grenade, cannot throw a Grenade, cannot put down a Chain Rifle. They decide to shoot with their pistol or Dodge. Trooper A peaks into the LoF of B and back out. - - - - - This situation would make it so any template cornerguard role are completely useless now. ARO'ing with a template weapon is nearly impossible. If this interaction works, it makes declaring BS Attack before Move a much stronger play than Move first, it makes it the optimal play to make the unintuitive declaration order and involves speculative position of your trooper in the declaration. It's a real mess. - - - - - Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. I would love to be. Does the "All shots must be declared from the same point." part of BS Attack Effects need to be a point that you exist in at the time of declaration? Or can it be a point that you will eventually move to? This would prevent that interaction. The part about "Move + BS Attack (or Vice Versa)" seems to indicate that the order doesn't matter, so you could pick a point that you will Move to on your second short skill? https://infinitythewiki.com/BS_Attack
I think the problem you run into is that when you *declare* the BS attack, you have to choose at what point you are shooting from. Since you haven't moved, you can only choose your start point. When you go to the resolution, the attack will fail due to no LoF. Otherwise you get weird rules with a player declaring an attack from a point they haven't moved to, then deciding to not move there. What happens? And if you are intending to move there, then does that let your opponent declare an attack at the same "hypothetical" point that you haven't moved to yet? This would be an absolute rules nightmare. ... Personally, I've always though that BS Attack/CC Attack/Comms Attacks should be removed from the options for your first Short Skill Declaration; it would solve *so many* weird rules issues, and in practice it's (almost) always better to either Move or Idle as your first short skill and shoot second so don't wind up eating a surprise uncontested ARO from an HD unit or something during your second skill.
Please explain how Active player can declare BS Attack before moving into LoF when... (PAGE 46) COVER Grey box, Effects bullet 1 If the target is in Total Cover, the attacker may not perform a BS Attack with Weapons, Special Skills, or Equipment, that requires LoF.
The best way has always been, cannot declare unless requirements are met first. CB keeps shooting themselves in the foot by trying to hold onto this idea of literally everything happens at the same time. If they're worried about ZoC baiting people to dodge then they should treat ZoC like camo markers. If they act in your ZoC and dont use stealth then you can choose to hold ARO to declare an Attack or you can choose to Dodge/Reset. Done. Done. Done.
Yeah we've looked at this but there's nothing you can pick a speculative point to shoot at. Maybe you can't but it doesn't say that you can't. And if you don't move to that point then the BS Attack fails.
Yeah, this is exactly why they made the change to the new FAQ, so you can declare out of LoF. Yeah, meeting requirement at declaration would be so much simpler, lol. Adding the ZoC measurement after each movement made it so you can't accidentally declare illegal thing, as you check ZoC to verify if you meet the requirement anyway. I don't understand the logic.
Also, I'm pretty sure this FAQ still allows the incredibly stupid interaction where you can declare CC attack as your first skill while hiding around the corner from your target, then declare Move as your second skill to run up and attack someone without them being able to shoot you. You have to choose at point you shoot the opposing model when you *declare* the attack, and since the opponent hasn't moved yet the only choice you have is to shoot them at their starting point... where you obviously don't have LoF. So you either declare BS attack, they run in and stab you (as they now fulfill the "silhouette contact" requirement) while your BS attack gets cancelled due to failing the LoF check, or you declare dodge and get subsequently murdered by a guy with a stick and CC 25. Again; a whole lot of headaches that could be solved by simply not allowing Attacks to be declared as the first short skill.
It feels like the red text here "in the location you are attacking it" is meant to pertain to whether that speculative point of fire is allowed (?) but it's clear as mud. It could be easily read either way.
This FAQ seem to allow you to shoot (but not template) anyone by declaring in reaction the attacker's CC bait "I will shoot the attacker after they round the corner/right before you make silhouette contact". The LOF check isn't actually done until the verification step, so as long as they actually round the corner you can shoot them.
This FAQ solves this. We are talking about BS attack+ move, not the ARO BS attack if someone declares CC. This FAQ specifically allows you to declare BS attack if someone tries the CC bait trick, except this can only be with weapons that are not templates like @RolandTHTG said.
IF you’re allowed to declare a speculative “point,” then yes. But the FAQ doesn’t mention allowing that; it says you can pick any point they have occupied during a Move skill, but they haven’t actually Moved yet. The only place they’ve actually been is their starting position. And you declare the point where you attack them when you declare the skill, so unless this FAQ is supposed to let us declare “speculative” BS attacks even in ARO then the same system brings back that stupid CC trick. And if you ARE allowed to declare “speculative” start and end points, then Direct Templates are indeed dead as an ARO option as described in the OP. The two issues are directly related.
you always select the "point in their movement" where you are shooting at the end. which is the whole reason that, in normal play, if you shoot from the corner and then move out, the enemy could shoot at the point where you were out of cover and closest to him. making it such that a shoot+move would never give any advantage over a move+shooting if you intended to shoot while in cover but also move to the objective.
Yes but in those interactions you always had LoF when you declared the attack; I double checked and that part is still listed on the wiki page at the bottom, so it still seems to hold up. So at least that trick is still gone. This whole “only check requirements on resolution” rules change is such a massive goddamn headache.
One of the new FAQ entries is solely a change of the word "declare" to "perform" in the BS Attack skill description. The writers must intend that declare and perform are different things, otherwise that FAQ entry would have no effect.
Between the other two threads recently popping up here (Minelayer and Visibility Zones), this update reads like a real dumpster fire. Hopefully we see either a rollback or a 1.25 very quickly, because this is way too messy to play right now.
