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Good, Bad and Ugly

Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by ogrekin, May 20, 2019.

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  1. ogrekin

    ogrekin Vet. Kazak
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    Generals of the Triumvirate

    I am new to things both Spiral and Tohaa.
    I have often visited this section of the forum looking for inspiration on my next move following my purchase of the Spiral box, but thus far haven't seen the thread I wanted, so I thought I'd start one.

    I'm not really after full army lists, just little nuggets of golden information; perhaps more on the lines of "try this triad, it's great for....." or "this model would be a great addition because....." or "in my game last night I did this and it was great..."

    I have only played one 'proper' game with Spiral so far and I felt that I hadn't quite got my triads right.

    Yours in anticipation.
     
  2. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Never played Spiral myself, only Tohaa, but Neema Saatar with Tri-Core seems the best shooting Triad in Spiral.

    Chaksa Auxiliary with HFT are good order monkeys and with their Sensor they work fine against Camo.
     
  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    The Draal marksman will usually be better when in a stratuscloud. Same BS, arguably more dangerous weapon, and while it has a lower burst the impact of Stratuscloud is pretty egregious.

    Neema is however the best uncomplicated shooter and pretty hard to go wrong with if you can afford her.
     
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  4. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    on the other hand draal has the additional boni of not being hackable while neema is one of the few hackable units.
     
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  5. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I have a few battles under my belt and here is the (albeit meagre) accumulated experience I am glad to share:
    The triad consisting of two chaksas and the MSV2 sniper Taagma is just awesome. It is fairly cheap as far as Spiral Corps goes and you can play nice mind-games with your opponent. The flamethorwer at work is a thing of beauty to watch, and puts your opponent in a difficult position: should he engage that guy from afar (and risk a burs two viral sniper rifle shot) or go in close and risk a flamethrower. Notice that you can add an affordable specialist to push buttons.
    Neema with TriCore is awesome. Carnage incarnate.
    The Kaeltar with SymbioBombs only cost 15 points. Very inexpensive trooper to be the third guy in a triad. So far I was unable to exploit the bombs, however...
    Clipsos and Alice Keyson are MVPs. Capable specialists to push button. Clipsos in SF mode are fairly complicated to dislodge. Cybermask is... Well.. That program is in its own league, when it comes to utility. All of them fairly affordable.
    Draal saboteurs are tough as nails. The AP Marksman rifle version brought down a Su Jian. (Forgot the pussy has a DT weapon and got killed bot him and the Kumotail...)
    Kriigel with smoke 'nade launcher is just golden. Smoke wherever you need. Kerail is second best but not bad.
    I hope this helps.
     
  6. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    I've had great success with two units: Draal and the Kiel-san.

    Draal -
    Multi-wound thanks to symbiont armour.
    Powerful equipment for survivability and firefights thanks to Stratuscloud (great defensive piece vs link teams because of it, and great offensive piece for the same reasons!).
    Decent BS and great BTS unwounded.
    Fast 1st movement for a perfect running gunfighter.
    Loadouts are powerful and capable at multiple ranges.
    Specialist with FD2.
    VERY attractive points cost.

    Kiel-san -
    Very tough with multiple wounds and metachemistry.
    Fast 1st movement for aggressive pushes through the map.
    High BTS, BS and decent ARM makes a surprisingly resilient roadblock.
    Decent enough in CC to make opponent fear being near them.
    Strong ranged weapons choices with low-to-no SWC cost.
    Bullet magnet to distract your opponent from your actual plans.

    In one game at a recent event my opponent (MO) spent their entire 1st turn moving their 'all-stars' core to deal with a Kiel-san with TI.
    An entire turn, to eliminate one model.

    They then found two Draal to be remarkably hard to dislodge with said link thanks to their Stratusclouds and strong AROs.

    I wasn't able to chew through the entire KH/JdA/GdF link, but with just 3 models it was enough to slow the enemy down significantly.
    (For the record, i still lost that game because it was frontline and the enemy doctor picked up two KH in the last turn).

    Point being:
    Spiral Corps have some strong pieces, but I forsee things like the Draal being practically auto-include.
     
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  7. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Whats also intresting is lemuet and draal combined. For aro duty, if enemy gets first turn and you use muet as an overwatch piece with a stratuscloud in front it can't be ignored because msv1 multisniper but its hard to kill because -6 odd -3 cover -3 stratuscloud -1 burst, so with some luck it can wreck the complete first turn of the enemy.
     
  8. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    I've only played 10 games (9 in tournaments) with Spiral so far but I've won 9 and tied 1. Of the 9 wins, 7 were major victories. There is a lot that I still want to experiment with but there are a few profiles that did incredible amounts of work. I'll just bullet point things that have seemed consistent to me from my games.

    - Neema LT (breaker combi/panzer) is gold: The extra swc from Neema goes a long way. I've felt most "in control" with the lists that used 6.5 - 7 swc. WIP 15 is solid for LT rolls. The extra command token from Neema is huge. I've used every single command token in the last 10 games. Both to make irregular orders regular or re-form the triads. I haven't felt the need to use her spitfire profile.
    - I can't properly express how insane helots are. I've only used the .5 swc 9 pt profile so far but I've been tempted by the shock MM rifle a few times.
    - The Draal AP Marksman Rifle is really good even without Tri-Core or even a triad at all. If you take 1 Draal, take that one.
    - The kiutan imposter is incredible, pay the extra .5 swc for the E/mauler. The e/mauler strikes fear into the heart of everyone and everything.
    - Everybody and their mother has a viral pistol, use it! They're terrifying!
    - Have I mentioned the helots?
    - I don't think the Draal have diminishing returns, running 3 feels really strong.
    - I haven't played around with Phero Booster but the smoke launcher is crazy good.
    - The MSV 2 Taagma is still amazing without Tri-core as long as you have Draal. Shooting through your own Stratuscloud in active turn will wreck most links. Also, I've holoprojected mine as a regular taagma and that catches people off guard.
    - Reex, nice Kriigel filler as a group 2 triad
    - Going for the double core with brawlers isn't as strong as it sounds. It's very 1 dimensional and static, I didn't like it and it didn't feel stronger than the flexibility of reforming my triads multiple times as needed.

    Stuff that I haven't tried yet:
    - Chaksa Longarms: They have multiterrain which is interesting with dazers being a thing. My gut tells me they aren't good but I need to play with them before really knowing.
    - Igao: it competes with the Draal in my lists and the Draal is a specialist so its hard to fit. In more killy missions I might go for it.
    - Clipsos: I haven't brought a single one yet but I always want to, they're pretty great
    - Rasail: I haven't felt the need for a spitfire Rasail or Neema spitfire but marching the viral combi up with 11 orders (assuming he's LT) is interesting to me.
     
    #8 Metal730, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  9. ogrekin

    ogrekin Vet. Kazak
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    This is all great stuff. Just what I was hoping for.

    How do we feel about doctors and engineers?

    Also I had a lot of trouble killing off a Rasail the other week, does it have a place in Spiral?
     
  10. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    I already tend to not doctor/engineer stuff regardless of whatever I play so keep in mind I'm biased. The kumotail is a lot of points and if you really want to use her as a doctor you should take servants and then she's not linkable. If we had cheap taagma paramedics I'd be all over it.

    I've used the Kosuil minelayer several times but am tempted by the .5 swc profile. Not because he's an engineer but because he's a 2 wound triad filling specialist with guns I like.

    Rasail has a place I think. I'd personally spend the swc elsewhere but the viral combi is scary. Spiral is really good at aggressively pushing in close.
     
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  11. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    So as a Tohaa player I can say, I like the Kumotail but I never use her. Thanks to symbiont armor its better to take a sakiel paramedic or even a kamael paramedic.
    I would only advice to Kumotail if she is helpful for the mission never for her doctor skills. If you need an engineer take Kosuil or Monstrucker.

    I got pretty decent at keeping my tohaas alive I rotate if someone looses symbiont armor I will take some other piece. Units without SA rarely are worth the orders needed to get them back up.

    Only time I would get units up again is if you are second turn and they fell unconcious in first turn.
     
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  12. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I love the Kumotail. Save for the Kaeltar and the bare-bones Taagma (I always max out on them, so they do not really count) she is the cheapest body to flash out a Triad. She keeps the gunner going. Healing and engineering (removing glue for example) both - two in one. And she's right where I need her to be: pretty close to the gunner.
    She is a capable specialist to push buttons and able to accomplish a pretty wide range of classifieds thanks to being a doctor and an engineer with D-charges at the same time. More often than not, she is accompanied by a good gunner who draws the bulk of fire enabling her to go relatively unmolested. Wherever she is needed. For essentially free.
    I never leave home without her.
     
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  13. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    I play Spiral pretty aggressively so I value multiple threats in a single triad very highly. I push out far with my triads and if it breaks I still want a model that'll function solo. For me, the kumotail is an expensive triad filler, if the gunner goes off the table she has no use and if she moves up the board she's a weak link in the triad to easily break it.

    If I have 20ish points to fill a triad the kosuil minelayer and kosuil bsg/panzer are where my mind goes. Both bring 2 wounds and a variety of threats and the engineer is a WIP 14 specialist.

    This is also personal bias but I value the ability to complete classified objectives at or near 0 unless the mission is biotechvore, comms center or highly classified. It's too random for me and in a lot of cases secure hvt is a great alternative for an army with such strong midfield presence.
     
  14. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    For the record, I value the Kumotail's ability to protect (heal and unglue) the primary gunner of the fireteam highest by far. Having someone able to push buttons comes secound because that makes order efficiency so much better. Her abilities to do classifieds are by far less valuable but I still consider them as a nice-to-have bonus. Although I also like the Kosuil engineer (BSG is one very, very mean weapon up close in a fireteam), his inability to actually heal the big gunner is a decisive factor for me. (So far, SymbioBombs' Revitals have not cut it for me…)
     
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  15. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    One problem with the kumotail is that as any other doctor or paramedic can only heal from unconcious to concious, so she heals into the weaker no symbiont armor state. There are a few units that don't care about it because they are not really loosing all that much with their symbiont armor. But many others are quite a bit weaker. I am only talking from the Tohaa perspective so this may not be true in spiral corps.
    Its also one of the reasons the gorgos is a rather bad TAG no option to heal wounds, so pretty easy to kill compared to some other tags.
     
  16. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    Doctor fits very well for certantly misions, Kumotail for example, brawler is not that good and Cube Jagger fits better on Tohaa lists than the Spiral's ones,

    Kosuil can link, and he is quite good unit, fits easy, even more when you play Highly Classified

    I think the Rasail is a good LT optión when you play Spiral, because Spiral Corps don't give you the chance to play a lot of LT orders when the LT is linked
     
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  17. gravitypool

    gravitypool Well-Known Member
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    Also want to point out that if playing with Spec Ops, the Tagmaa specops is the only model with an HMG that can go into a Tricore. He's squishy but burst 5, BS15 on a 3 man easy to move fireteam is golden. You can add a lvl1 MSV visor for the lulz.
     
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  18. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Cube Jaeger is fantastic for unexpected waltz-in buttun-pushing shenangianism. Or ascending from no-where to heal back to life a seemingly helpless trooper left for the crows by the opponent.
    I think SC plays very differently realtive to vanilla Tohaa. For example we have very few cheap Triad fillers.
     
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  19. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Cube Jäger is also nice as a speed bumb, putting it in cover and suppressive fire can be quite effective but it is especially nice as a "cheapisch" AD specialist, jumping down round 3 to do the objectives etc
     
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  20. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    My issue with the Cube Jager in Spiral Corps is the irregular order, i have so many irregular orders with the Helots, and then, another one with Cube Jager?

    Certantly is a good unit/specialist, but not a must in my Spiral Corps lists