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Getting savely into CC

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Kumatake81, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    With most of the CC units in JSA gotten cheaper, I'm willing to try a more CC orientated List. I know this might be very beginners questions but:
    how to get into CC without getting hit by a direct template or an unopposed attack?

    How to use smoke?

    What about the new dodge option?
     
  2. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    The new dodge option and the marker state are still your best bet.
     
  3. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    OK. But how does it actually work.
    Because if I'm in marker state and move into CC with my first short skill, I get a template to the face.
    If I move closer with my first short skill, my oppont can delay, and then I move into CC and get a template to the face, or an unopposed shot.
    What am I doing wrong?
     
  4. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
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    Dodge doesn't trigger AROs so you can do some cheeky aproaches with Dodge (+2'').
    As for Marker state you can half move to bait ARO and then depending on what they declare move outside their LoF (moving across the enemy trooper, for example). Next order you stab them in the butt.
     
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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yeah, you use the Marker State to get behind them, then stab.

    Or if it's an HI you just tank the DTW hit.
     
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  6. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    Ah I see. So basicly I want to attack from outside LoF. Otherwise I get shot...

    Thanks a lot to everybody answering my questions
     
  7. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
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    To elaborate on the Dodge, you can (with Stealth) move to...say... a corner, without triggering ZoC AROs and then declare a Dodge, that will be a normal roll. If you pass you are allowed to move up to 2'' (plus any Dodge MODs, such as Dodge +2'') and you are allowed to enter B2B, so you can roll around a corner into someone's face.

    Here's the relevant rules:

    upload_2020-10-27_16-58-17.png
     
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  8. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    Why, not attack from the rear, if the unit has stealth it might be a lot easier.
     
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  9. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    Follow up question: what to do against units with sixth sense?
    Attack from the rear? But can't they react as if they had LoF?
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Only if attacked, if you move into CC (from out of LoF) with your first skill they'll still be limited to Engaged State AROs as they haven't been attacked yet, so 6th Sense hasn't kicked in.
     
  11. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    In engaged state they have 360° LoF?
    So they can CC me or shoot me anyway?
     
  12. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Can't shoot if you're in the engaged state, and if they don't have LoF to a point where you're not engaged there's no opportunity to BS Attack

    They can CC Attack you, but if you're moving into CC I'm assuming you're using a trooper that'll win the CC handily.
     
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  13. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    @colbrook thanks for clarification. I didn't get the finess of engaged state. This way it works perfectly, because, yes, I intend to win the FtF CC roll:grinning:
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    IMHO CC is actually stronger against Fireteams than it was in N3 as 6th Sense can no longer Delay AROs.
     
  15. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind they can also declare dodge and just... move away.
     
  16. Catspaw

    Catspaw Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused about this - if you are dodging into base contact while out of LoF, does your opponent even get an ARO to declare dodge? Assuming you entered their ZoC using Stealth as the first part of your order.
     
  17. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Stealth only works on Short Movement Skills and Cautious Move, so they'll get an ARO in response to your Dodge declaration.
     
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  18. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    My understanding is that using Dodge cancels Stealth, so you trigger a Zone of Control ARO when you declare it.
     
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  19. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Of course they do. Declaring any skill that isn’t “move” or “cautious movement” cancels Stealth automatically, applied to the entire order retroactively.

    Otherwise you’d be able to walk a Stealthy hacker up and Carbonite TAGs for free.
     
  20. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
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    I would like to point out that: a) Dodge is a Short Movement Skill and b) Stealth will allow an ARO, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill.
    This is, of course, provided it's the Active Turn.
     
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