Greetings beautiful people, Please let me quote the following rules in Move, Jumping, Climbing and Climbing plus: And now an important part of the General Conditions of Move: Let me extract from it the following sentences: A Trooper can move over any scenery item whose height is equal to or lower than the height of the Trooper’s Silhouette Template, with no need to declare Climb of Jump. But what if the trooper is already jumping or climbing? The general conditions of move should be applied while a jump or climb is perfomed... This means that a trooper who is climbing or jumping can vault over any scenery item whose height is equal to or lower than the height of the Trooper? And if yes, and more important, does this mean that he can vault over any scenery item who is CURRENTLY lower than the height of the trooper? Because if the answer to that is yes as well, then we have finally solved this famous image: A image which, as has been discussed throughly in the forums, could not be trigonometically possible if we have to take in account the full height of the scenery plus the size of the base... but if the trooper could vault while jumping, would be absolutely possible mathematically. Why? because, as the rule in general movement rules says: This vertical movement is not taken into account when measuring how far the Trooper moves. Althought, the Trooper counts as moving up and over the obstacle for the purposes of LoF. This also would have implications for climbing plus, as the corner of a building could be taken as 'scenery to vault' and therefore there would be three distinctive moments for the trooper who is climbing plus on a wall towards the roof of a building: Moving through a vertical surface, and not benefiting for partial cover bonuses. Vaulting unto the roof, a moment in which the trooper would be allowed to benefit for partial cover bonuses, but she would be counting as moving up and over for LoF (so usually only benefits for partial cover to troopers who are below the height of the building). And On the roof, which would be normal movement and therefore normal partial cover bonuses and LoF. Sorry if this sound too chaotic while I tried to explain it! (edited to fix a couple of mistakes in spelling/grammar/communication... sorry!)
As the rules are written, exactly how we are meant to evaluate "above" and "below" is unclear whether that is in relation to the table's orientation or the unit's orientation. So if you are able to make use of the vaulting rules while climbing is not clear, but it gets really really messy if you try to do it in a situation where you change orientation mid-movement because this will definitely put either the starting or the end location below the silhouette of the other. Basically, if you choose to read it as being relative to the board, then a Climbing+ unit can vault over an edge-obstacle to get up better (there's a very mathy answer behind how this works that I won't go into), while if you choose to read it as being relative to the unit's orientation then a unit can vault over a small obstacle sticking out from the wall while climbing but not when Climbing+ over an obstacle close to the edge of what they are climbing on. Anyway, for climbing the rules are clear. Disappointing maybe, but clear. Since the vaulting essentially starts when you are fully supported and ends when you start being fully supported again, and your only two fully supported positions are your start point and your end point you have to evaluate the entire jump as a vault meaning at no point can you move your silhouette above or below either the start or the end point. This usually defeats the reason why you'd want to do this except for exceptional circumstances when jumping a quite flat trajectory When jumping? Almost always no. When climbing vertically only? Yes, if the below answer is no. When climbing+ from vertical to horizontal position? No, if the above answer is yes. Edit: Plus, you know, the rules for vaulting does also say "without the need to declare Jump or Climb"
I agree that the rules of vaulting specify 'without the need to declare Jump or Climb'. The question is that once you have declared 'jump' or 'climb', do the General Movement Rules apply in full and you can still vault something that is on your way? If the answer is no, and after reading you @Mahtamori I am heavily bending my opinion toward such no unless some additional input or insight is provided from Corvus Belli, only a miniature using climbing plus, or a miniature using a ladder/stair, would be able to vault while on a wall, as they treat any vertical surface as horizontal, and they’re declaring Move as an order. Even then, the point you make, about the importance of “relative to board” or “relative to your miniature position”, would be of importance to the climbing+/ladder/stair user. Because if it is relative to board they would be unable to vault almost ever if there is any obstacle in their way. But if it is relative to their position, as they’re treating the vertical surface they’re on as a vertical one, that mean the very corner of the building could be vault for them. Something that may be small, but would allow those buildings with the classical “cover rail”, to be more easy to climb+/ladder/stair. As you could ignore the size of the rail for your movement measure. A final question would be that in the case you could vault over the corner of a building for a climb+/ladder/stair miniature: when does exactly the “can not benefit for partial cover bonuses while they’re on a vertical surface” for a climbing+ trooper would end when they vault over the corner of the building? Never? At the start of the vault? At the end of the vault? Thanks lot for the time reading my rabblings!
The problem is that immediately when the miniature flips to horizontal and moves a fraction of a nanometer, the miniature is completely and fully below the relative position of where your miniature was last fully supported meaning the vaulting movement becomes illegal. Basically flip the situation 90 degrees and try to vault down from an overhang and onto a wall that's completely below your starting position and it becomes very obvious.
