I'm working on a 5 mission tournament list and one of the mission is Deadly dance, so TAG is a must have. The other mission are supplies, acquisition, unmasking and highly classified With highly classified, my first list will be an all specialist list that can be used for other mission. It's generic enough that I can use it in all mission except deadly dance. So, I need to build a list with a TAG (to be efficient for deadly dance) that can perform well in all other mission except highy classified. I'm thinking of 2 possible strategies : - a 1 group list with the Szalamandra as its center and heavy ARO (sin eater, TR drone, crazy, mine) => Default is my offensive team will be szalamandra and skirmisher only, advantage is heavy defense + low number make it good against most rambo - a 13 regular orders (8/5) with a gecko, less ARO but more offensive piece => The advantage of this is the low cost of the Gecko. With him as a TAG I can still take a stronger offense (intruder, hecklers) and have more order to use them and do the mission. On the other side, my TAG is much more squishy and I will likely be less efficient in a first turn rambo than the 1 group list I'm still early in my reflexion so I'm looking for advices. How would you do this ? With one of the two strategy I planned or a different one ?
Lizard. DT with a HGL in Unmasking. DT on the final objective for Aquisition. Both require a tough DT with specialists. There's a lot of solid ways to build a Lizard list around that. Hell, it's even potentially solid in HC because you can use it to blap critical specialists. Same goes for Supplies: Lizard supported by Z&P and midfield specialists is doable.
So you would go lizard with the same kind of list I planned to use with the szalamendra (heavy defense + some specialist) ? Wouldn't he be more vulnerable in deadly dance and in Dt for acquisition due to lack of direct template weapon and lower BTS ?
I'd say that between those 2 lists, the Szally is the more "1st turn dependant" : either you go first and wreak havoc in the table, or you go 2dn and it's getting more tricky to get the best out of Szally. OTOH might be far less resistant, it's more mobile, fed with more orders. TBH i don't know wich to choose. You should playtest thoroughly the 2 lists and choose from the results you get.
That's what Morlocks and your own hackers are for. The Nomad TAG advantage is versatile TAGs with a Warband screen. The advantage of a Lizard over Salzy is the HGL so you can remove troublesome enemies without pushing too far until T3. Pushing a TAG over the halfway before that is often not a great idea (I have to avoid smiling with glee everytime someone does it vs me. My Morlocks have statued soo many things because of that).
Yeah, the Lizard HGL is the ticket and should be in your list for Unmasking and Deadly Dance. Screen it with Morlocks, play conservatively, and you're set. Any mission with a DT is free points for that Lizard, way freer than you can imagine. Spec fire on 8's feels slow, but when you can score 2 OP for 4-5 orders it's a sweet bargain. I'd also recommend a team of Uberfallkommando. You know there's gonna be TAGs, so deploy them, wait patiently, and gobble them up if they get out of place. The last round I played that I knew there would be a TAG (show of force vs OSS) my opponent ran a Marut, didn't do a good enough job screening, (cause he spent all his points on a Marut and didn't want to invest more!) and fell in a single round to the pack. People get sloppy with expensive models if they aren't used to them.
I dont know what it is, but Avatars. Most people think they can just Rambo them around and leave them out unsupported. Partly it's probably the whole "I can't go into LOL or be possessed" thing. Nomads: *applies EM liberally* Also, it's only 8's if you're not using Satlock to get Targetted off on critical targets. Nomads ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () ZOE & PI-WELL undefined. (0 | 47) ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SALYUT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) 3 SWC | 178 Points Open in Infinity Army Aside: it's technically possible to build a Bakunin Lizard list that can get 8 OP on Turn 1 (it's not guaranteed though). Basically three zeroes that you co-ord to move-move to the buttons and then push them (4 orders) and then HGL the Designated Target.
Yeah, the Avatar sucks to fight but then a Morlock smacks it with MA:2 and he's done. Super satisfying. As far as Lizard support is concerned I don't take much... usually 2-3 morlocks and a Zero FO. I don't take an engineer because repairing STR is too unreliable and I can get three Morlocks for the points. Sat-Lock & Spotlight are fun but I find it more flexible to pound away on 8's if the FO surprise shot doesn't work out.
I have thought some more following your advices. I review my possibility and I'm down to 2 lists : On one side, a 1 group list focused on the Szalamandra with strong mid-field defense (mine, crazy) and a TO sniper for long range support. All focus on the TAG (how to protect him support him...) : Satellite - Liste n°2 (Szalamandra mid field) ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90) SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. () SPEKTR MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39) HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) HECKLER Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Cybermines / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army On the other side, I played with th lizard a bit with a 2 group list in mind with less midfield presence but a sin eater, more order and a pair of morlock : Satellite - Liste n°4 (Lizard) ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 LIZARD MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / . (2.5 | 87) LIZARD PILOT Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. () HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) PUPPET MASTERS (Minelayer) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines / PistolKnife. (0.5 | 14) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) GROUP 2 3 2 2 SIN-EATER HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 33) INTERVENTOR Hacker Lieutenant (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Both list include the Heckler boarding because he is very dangerous against TAG : camo marker are very good at moving upfield to use template weapon and E-marat is nasty against TAG I'm gonna test both of them to see what I likee/dislike. I would welcome any advice. No engineer make you very vulnerable to Imm-2 and Isolated (speaking from my opponents experience after being hit by E/M)
Yep I always put down an avatar with some Daturatzi and a sprinkle of hungries. I have actually lost an avatar over 30 from my board edge to a morlock before (in an intro game) it's the sepsitor, coaxes you into overextension.
@Arkhos: Yeah. That's why I love Z&P with a Lizard. I'd consider dropping a Zero KHD for a Stempler or it and the Clockmaker for Z&P. The addition of sensor allows you to deal with midfield heavy lists easier. With an Engineer on the table I'd also drop the Sin-Eater to a Reaktion. This would be a different way to get a Stempler (use the saved points to upgrade the Moderator, you'll also need to drop the Moran to just a Combi).
I did choose option C: forget the TAG. Unmasked dancing with TAGs ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 1 CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 13) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31) ZERO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 6 2 1 DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) SALYUT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army With this kind of list I never lost Deadly Dance or Unmasking. In DD you'll basically get a TAG for the price of an AHD Zero.but youhavetoget the 2nd turn. In Unmasking you can use your Hackers freely thanks to the exclusion zone
I thought about the no TAG option but it's a big tournament and even with 5 round, top spots are often decided with the number of objective points. In many tournaments, I end up second instead of third because of a 1 or 2 objectives points advantage. Loosing 3 points because no TAG in deadly dance can really hurt (and possed TAG can't score point in deadly dance)