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Gaia & Tectonic Shake

Discussion in 'Rules' started by HarlequinOfDeath, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    Just appeared on FB:

    We have updated the scenarios' rules and we have added this condition to: Conquest, Human Target, and Capture The Flag.

    Now Gaia is not allowed to use her tactic card "Tectonic Shake".
     
  2. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    Big oof.
     
  3. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    But not king of the hill?

    Seems strange. @-V- could you explain this please? Feels very slap dash and not in keeping with how well run aristeia has been (though similar to how infinity rules have been updated).
     
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  4. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    Tell me, what's the problem with KotH?

    :thinking_face:
     
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  5. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply.

    I think that moving the center scoring zone in king of the hill to the deployment zone farthest from your enemies at the beginning of the game is very strong (you don't have to deploy any of your models there so you should be able to move the zone immediately). Meanwhile, moving a scoring zone in conquest cant be done until turn 2 and is much less strong.

    Seems strange to change one and not the other, as well as making gaia a much poorer choice for the missions that she seemingly arbitrarily can't use her strongest card for. If the card is too good for those missions why wasn't it rewritten so it can be used in every mission without a problem?

    Perhaps i am misunderstanding the rule?
     
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  6. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    I see. Well, we'll check it. Meanwhile, we needed to contain Gaia's Tactic.

    Thanks for your post and your concern.

    :wink:
     
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  7. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate that, and hope you know how much I love this game.

    However, this feels sloppy and rushed. A change like this needs to be thought out (preferably before the card is released, but nothing is perfect) and then explained in more than a quick FB post.

    Thanks for your time!
     
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  8. SushiYumYumz

    SushiYumYumz Member

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    I agree with @Plebian This is a mistake.

    Changing the scoring zone in Conquest should not be an issue, players can repawn in both zones. So the Center zone will be no closer to either team than it was previously.

    In Capture the flag moving the zone makes it closer for BOTH players, Not for only one, This is still balanced.


    and No one plays human target anyways, better to just delete that mode than make an exception for it.
     
  9. Croepoek

    Croepoek Well-Known Member

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    I would like to second that concern. Tectonic Shake in KotH seems to be the best use of the tactic, as the opponent has to a) cross the full board and b) also pass the spawning zone of the other team while trying to reach the new scoring zone. So if you start with TS and a No in your hand (or fetch at least one of it via Oberon, while trying to get the other via a Mulligan) the scenario is a very step uphill battle for the non Gaia player.
     
  10. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    First, I do think that Tectonic Shake played on first turn off KotH is really strong and, in some cases, a game winning play.

    But the chances to pull that off are really low, you need both Tectonic Shake and No! in your starting hand to garantee the play. Becouse of the tactic timing you cannot rely on Catch your breath (017) or Stick to the plan (018). That is 2 out of 18 in your starting hand of 4 (not counting any Sponsor), this is not gonna happen most of the time.
    And if you do play the tactic later in the game, of course it will be strong (thats what tactics do) but not as disruptive for the enemy.

    Not arguing one way or another just that if you put a lot of resources in team composition for a low chance on a possible game winning play maybe your team suffer if you have to play a game where you are not able to pull that off.
     
    #10 zlavin, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  11. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    It's just a stealth Tao Wu buff.
    Now he'll be meta for KotH, due to giving double odds of drawing No!. :^)
     
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  12. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    I think having a small chance of winning* the game before it starts based on drawing is a negative play experience, and I expect better from this game.

    My solution would be to remove this card altogether and replace it with one that makes you the underdog automatically. Now it's good in all scenarios but doesn't break missions.


    *Or just gaining an arbitrary large advantage
     
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  13. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    Isn't the drawing luck a factor on your games at all? Didn't you ever win/loss a game becouse you did or didn't have the tactic you needed in the right moment?

    I don't think it is something new to the game becouse of Gaia.

    And about your solution, I don't like it at all. I can play around and build my team around a Tectonic Shake on first turn but I don't think I can play around a tactic that switch the Underdog midround. For me that is really game-breaking.
     
  14. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    Never in the first draw of the game, and never in isolation. This is a discontinuity with how the game has worked in the past.

    Im also confused by your hyperbole.
     
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  15. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    Not an hyperbole, sorry if it sounded like it.

    Only that I see that you have a really hard felling against it and as I said it can be a strong play but you need a lot of luck to pull it off. And you can draft and play around it.

    For me there are already in the game other plays that can be similar to this.
    - Unlimited power first turn in Conquest, I have lost games becouse of it and becouse of the "fear" of it (having to move my Aristos to the middle hexagon of a Zone whit a Move+Move while the enemy can do more things).
    - Mushashi or Valkyrie first turn 3 movement point tactic (they also need to be lucky whit the dice after but still)
    - Having Gata and being the Underdog in Capture the Flag I think is the most broken thing in this game, you dont even need tactics!

    I can be wrong but I don't think it is that "bad" for the game. But I'm pretty sure the A! team will fix it if they feel like it is needed.
     
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  16. volgo

    volgo Usuario

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    Another issue I have with KotH is the Additional Scoring.
    It says:
    "Each time an enemy Character inside
    the Central Scoring Zone is sent to the
    Infirmary (1 Victory Point)."
    So if Gaia change the scoring zone (as it is allowed in this scenario), the frag still need to happen in the central zone to score?
     
  17. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    Who that would actually be gamebreaking. Great you pointed this. I would be very surpized in a negative way if someone could do that on the turn one of KotH.
     
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  18. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    I was thinking about this... Why do you say in Conquest cant be done until turn 2?

    :thinking_face:
     
  19. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    Good point. We've just removed mentions to Central Zone. Just download it again.

    :wink:
     
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  20. SushiYumYumz

    SushiYumYumz Member

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    I think the only option is to release a new gaia card and release it with the next expansion.

    gaia would end up with 5 cards (one that cannot be used in the scenarios youve selected) but still would be balanced. But i still think there are issues with making it so that it cannot be use din conquest, (and there is an argument for CTF)

    Maybe a gorgoneon bomb, or a "move your gorgoneons up to 5 spaces" or something
     
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