1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Fusilier Fireteams Aritcles - Heart of the Hyperpower

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by AdmiralJCJF, Apr 15, 2020.

  1. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,590
    Hi guys.

    After FAR too long I'm finally getting back into writing for Infinity on Heart of the Hyperpower.

    [​IMG]
    To get back into things I've decided to take a look at Fusilier Fireteam Core builds across our Sectorials, starting with the latest in the Svalarheima Winter Force.

    Each of the articles will be in two parts, an overview of the Fireteam and the options available for it within each Sectorial and then a second which gives example Fireteam builds.

    The first article looking at what you can get in a Fusilier Fireteam Core in the Svalarheima Winter Force is here.

    The second article looking at some examples of Fusilier Fireteam Core builds for SWF is here.

    The third article looking at what you can get in a Fusilier Fireteam Core in the Varuna Immediate Reaction Division is here.

    The fourth article looking at some examples of Fusilier Fireteam Core Builds for VIRD is here.

    I'll be looking at the Fusilier Core in Varuna next (guess what the highlight of THAT will be!) and then I'll go over the same in NCA. The Acontecimento Regular Fireteam Core and Order Sergeant Fireteam Core articles will come after those.



    Let me know what you think!
     
    #1 AdmiralJCJF, Apr 15, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
    Cadmo, Urobros, Sungwon and 1 other person like this.
  2. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    534
    Thanks for the write up! In these times of quarantine, theory crafting takes on a more important role than ever. I know that TTS is available, but it’s definitely not the same as having models in hand.

    In any case, I agree with just about everything you’ve offered. I have a thought though. You skip over a fusilier fireteam on its own. I know that we’re in the age of mixed fireteams right now, and there is no doubt that a linked ORC hmg brings more efficacy to the table than a fusilier hmg. At the same time, a burst 5, bs 15 hmg will win almost every exchange you care to have. If you’re worried about the ability to take a hit, two fusiliers with hmgs are actually cheaper than one ORC. Two fusiliers could present threats from two slightly different angles than an ORC, and also have the benefit of bringing two orders. On top of that, with mixed fireteams, most players are prepared for the ORC/KoJ/Kamau/Bagh Mari in the core team and the threat that it presents. Fewer players are prepared for that threat and the added threat of a solo ORC/KoJ/Kamau/Bagh Mari/Nisse moving up a flank and getting a different angle. It is much easier to defend oneself from a static fireteam than it is to defend from a flanking attacker covered by a static fireteam. Keeping the fireteam as just Fusiliers would allow more points to be spent on this solo attackers that can take advantage of stuff hunkering down to avoid being pelted by a core linked hmg.
     
    Urobros and miguelbarbo84 like this.
  3. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,590
    You are right that the Fusilier HMG and Missile Launcher are viable options some of the time. But when other options are available I don’t see the downgrade as a good investment of SWC.

    Possibly a good cheap backup ‘though. Either the HMG Fusilier for a Knight of Justice, the Missile Launcher Fusilier for an ORC HMG, for lists that can’t afford both HI.
     
  4. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    534
    Think of it less as a downgrade and more of a sidestep. Maybe, taking that fusilier instead of the ORC means that you can bring the Nokk spitfire or a Nisse hmg to open up more attack vectors in an army that can be relatively static otherwise.

    Plus, if the 6-2 move on HI happens in N4, it opens up opportunities to have HI run more effectively as solo strikers instead of potentially slowing down to drag along light infantry.

    I know that 6-2 is still 8 inches, but when moving and shooting, you can leave those 4-4 guys behind surprisingly quickly.
     
  5. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,590
    Movement changes will make things interesting, but a lot of the time your Fusilier Core isn’t going far in any case.

    And don’t get me wrong here, I played a lot of NCA so I appreciate the potential of Fusilier Core heavy weapons. I just think that they aren’t your best first choice in Svalarheima.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  6. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    534
    We’re on the same page. I just wanted to bring up that you glossed over one option that can be used in SWF.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  7. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,590
  8. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,590
    Just playing around with Fireteam options for the next article with suggested builds for Varuna.

    I should get that one finished tonight!
     
    #8 AdmiralJCJF, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  9. Freki

    Freki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    154
    Hey, there is an obvious mistake at the beginning of your article ;)
    Your VIRD article starts with:
    "Like many of our PanOceanian Sectorials the Svalarheima Winter Force has the option to field a Core Fireteam built from"

    Great read, I liked all the non obvious stuff inclusion like the ML bot and HRL Kamau. Well argumented.
     
    #9 Freki, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  10. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Only a minor nitpick, but you rag on the Infirmarer in a Fusilier team pretty hard for someone who can potentially get a B4 Monofilament weapon on a CC of 20; even just getting a second fusilier engaged makes them a very scary proposition for just about everyone. My "go to" is to run any CC against a Makaul, an Umbra, McMurder, Shinobu and Achilles via the dice calculator; while Shinobu minces him and Achilles and McMurder don't suffer much, the Makaul and Umbra really don't want to get ganged up upon. Virtually any non-super-specialist CC trooper is blown away with B2+ Mono attacks that can't miss.
     
  11. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    534
    I don’t know what kinds of Makauls or Umbras you’re facing, but even with burst 3, the Infirmarer is more likely to lose than win either of those exchanges.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,262
    Likes Received:
    7,398
    It's important to evaluate more than just the f2f odds too.

    On a 4-2 Unit with no smoke, what's the likelihood of actually getting him into b2b with anything, not to mention more than 1 of his buddies?

    And if your target (the Makaul, for example) has a Burst 2 direct template weapon for protection, I'm really not sure.

    I don't hate the notion of a cheap, bare-bones Mono CC combatant who can easily use link bonuses to increase his odds in f2f. I just don't think it's likely I'll ever be able to initiate CC with it in SWF.

    The most realistic approach I see is a Core with a KoJ in it as well, and assuming the Infirmar will become 4-4. Use the KoJ's future 6 inch first MOV and natural durability to initiate CC and pin the target, then bring in the Mono with a subsequent order. That's quite good if we're talking about a seriously durable target, one that basic small arms or even the KoJ don't have much chance of hurting over multiple Orders.
     
  13. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    953
    With crit changes this will become key for TAGs. DA CCW on14s is going to bounce a fair amount against arm 8.
     
  14. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,590
    Cheers for that, I obviously still had my Svalarheima brain on when I was doing the intro.

    Fixed!

    Even if you did manage to pull that off, you are going to lose most of the time, burst or no burst, against a Makaul or an Umbra.

    And it's going to be hard to get there with the slow Infirmarer (who may have a place in other fireteam options to fill the role you suggest) as well as the fragile Fusiliers.

    All in all, I see your point and remain unimpressed.
     
  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    4,470
    With setup you can make about anything work in Infinity.
    At B4 a Fusilier's Knife will be pretty troublesome.

    The point of bashing the Infirmarer is that he can't use his shit on his own. A Fusilier Fireteam should generally avoid close quarters like the plague, they're not exactly at home in DTW/Shotgun territory.
    Useable CC is usually CC above 20 + another MOD, either a negative one for the opponent, a postive one for the CC troop or both.


    Unrelated to that - with the usual high crit chance CC troops have AP CCWs grow on me for N4. An AP Crit and a DA crit are pretty different threats when you can't circumvent ARM. Main gripe that remains is lacking Antimaterial for missions.
     
  16. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    The difference being that a B4 knife isn't exactly scary to a TAG, or Achilles, but B4 Monofilament is (even B2 starts changing "sure thing" CC into "do I risk it?" territory). The point of the Infirmarer would be as a deterrent against a close-range Rambo who would be relying on high CC, high ARM and/or multiple wounds/structure to survive. Obviously it's worthless vs warbands or any other cheap Rambo units, but taking out an overextended Joan or a Sphinx that has gotten too close and can be easily "Sensor-ed" (and you're fine trading ~50 points to fire damage to kill it) could be game changing. Your opponent would have to take that particular threat into consideration and you could set traps accordingly (well, maybe in there was TO worth a damn in the sectorial...).
     
  17. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    4,470
    Sorry but the whole point you're arguing for is way too specific to be part of any sort of strategy. A TAG lacking a defensive setup that would prevent an Infirmarer AND 3 Fusiliers to get into BTB can be considered dead. That includes the TAG's own HFT and FTF options, Warbands to screen it, Mines, AROs, Skirmishers, Linetroopers in SF you name it.
    Doesn't matter what you throw at it given the premise you're going with. 2 Monks, Oniwaban... if it's in BtB with the TAG that's basically "screwed"-state.
    The Infirmarer lacks the means that make him good at crossing the table or good in CC on his own. You need a out of position high value target to make even attempting and even then you'd probably be happier using some Knights instead.
    As far has his CC deterrent qualities are concerned he isn't doing a good job their either. Every proper Ramo can either gun him down or handily beats him 1vs1 in CC (relative to his point costs - compare to someone who could actually give a Rambo a run for his money, i.e. a Myrmidion, Jaguar, Galwegian or Monk).

    Even if you manage to move up and take down a TAG with your squishy LI Link. That Link now has a similar problem, it's as good as dead. And you're probably short 80+ points and 5 Orders on your next turn.

    CC level "deterrent" work on multiwound models that hit hard and only need one success vs the other guy who has to plink away at it's defenses, most TAGs with something like CC18 AP CCW fit the bill. A lone Bandit is probably gonna die before he can finish the TAG in CC.
    The other thing that works is decent CC on a cheap dude. Which is rare, since cheap guys are often pretty damn competent in CC, sporting CC20+ and a CC Mod on top.
    In N3 "deterrent" level CC is rare on anything above 20 points.
    The only troops I can think off outside of TAGs with the ability to pull it off (sometimes) are Hsien and Hac Tao, Thanks to MA+DA CCW or TO+DA CCW, combined with a sturdy platform.
    Other than that extra CC is either wasted or at "competent" rather than "deterrent" levels.

    Sure hope the guy is missing a Skill or piece of Equipment that will change him up in N4. Not happy at all with his current Profile.
     
  18. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,431
    Likes Received:
    2,080
    The Infirmarer seems like he might make a good sidekick for the KoJ, either in the Duo or in the Fusilier Core, but his use is otherwise dubious. Maybe could be worth it in certain 200pt games, where you can only get a Core-linked shotgun from either him or the ORC and still leave points for anything else. The other big point where the Monofilament sword and CC 20 can come in handy is against Immobilised targets; a smart player might be able to get some use out of him alongside a Karhu or two, or possibly a decent Hacking setup against certain factions. In general though he certainly is a very niche choice, and doesn't offer much to the Fusiliers.
     
    Lady Numiria likes this.
  19. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,590
  20. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    4,470
    The one major point of concern about the viability for most of those is the way they are compared as "Core Firetems".
    Some of these are 7 Wounds worth of troops for 130-154 points. That's insanely pricey for what they bring over the 70 point Kamau Sniper.

    The aggressive options completely forget that the MSV2 MSR can easily keep up with the Kamau HMG in the midfield. Ignoring Mimetism and better Discover, the ability to deny and circumvent ubiquitous Smoke chuggers in midfield and DZ. The Kamau HMG is far from bad, but it's very much an afterthought to add into the Core Link or simply a solo gunner rather than a replacement for how ridiculous the MSR is.

    My personal favourite is the usual defensive Core with either a second MSR or an Orc HMG that can take a hit/crit to the face and keep going without any change of plans. AVA of extra linkable 10 point Fusiliers is also not to be neglected. It allows to hide the Lt outside of the link and makes for readily available spares. I often end up splitting off the Orc during later turns and reform the defensive Link in later turns, when it gets much harder to straight up oppose the Kamau MSR.
     
    #20 Teslarod, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    Cadmo and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation