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Fugazi, Pathfinder and their firends!

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Arkaon1125, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    Hello all! I'm wandering whi in so many lst i see fugazi, pathfineds and similar dronebot. I'm quite new to the game as you can see from the previous post and i'm tryng to undersand why we field those units.

    Fugazi are cheap (8 pt) so is a cheap way to have an order with a small rifle (flashpulse)? Or there are specific reason we use them, like some special task i cannot see?

    Pathfinders are more expensive and, despite they bring a Combi rifle i cannot see the real use of them.

    The question is, sure i'm missing something because i see many many list with those bots and now i'm wandering why they are so usefull!
     
  2. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    They're cheap order generators, and despite some dissenting voices, orders are the most valuable thing in infinity.

    You don't use the cheerleaders for fighting, basically.
     
  3. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Panoceania is a bit lacking in the skirmisher department (compare to nomads, ariadna...).

    Pathfinder brings you a fast specialist (15-10), with good WIP (for pano) with the added utility of sensor and being able to receive support program, all of that in a cheap package.
     
    meikyoushisui and Arkaon1125 like this.
  4. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    Understood, so basically they are cheerleaders with some sprinkle of utility. For testing purpuse we are still stucker to 200 pt army, and i'm tryng to shrink a big elephant (Jotum) in a Mouse Hole. That's really really hard!
     
    Urobros likes this.
  5. Whyarecarrots

    Whyarecarrots Well-Known Member

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    I was about to start writing out a treatise in support of these humble units, but then realised I would be better off letting far more experienced players do it - Barakiels tactica articles for Neoterra and Acontecimento give excellent summaries on how to use these units. You'll find them pinned at the top of the forum :)

    For my part, I will say that in my experience I using them they have been supremely flexible units for the low cost you pay for them. Fugazi have been very useful cheap order generators with flash pulses to be really irritating ARO pieces. Meanwhile the pathfinder can fight (if you put marksmanship l2 support ware on it with a hacker it's far from awful) flash pulse, is a fast specialist and can use sensor to discover camo. For 8 and 16 points respectively they're a bargain!
     
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  6. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

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    Along with EVO program 'Overclock' (can be provided by EVO Mulebot) all the bots with repeater (so Fugazi, Pathfinder, Bulleteer, Peacemaker) will shoot twice in the reactive turn, as well as Peacemaker Auxbots (due to operator having repeater). So for quite a low price and added utility you generate fuckton of orders and setup defense line, that can be later advanced forward, if still alive.

    To make it more interesting, if you start second, then you can spend single Command Token to activate one of EVO programs, so you can start the game with Overclock on, further decreasing efficiency of your opponents' alpha strike.
     
  7. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    The comments mentioned are already good. Just more to add:

    • Fugazi give you presence on the table. Flash Pulse + Mimetism is quite a good ARO, since it can stop almost any unit in 1 shot. It even has good rangebands. This makes it a supreme defensive tool. You can drop a Fugazi to watch your left table edge, one Fugazi to watch your right table edge, and they'll protect you from Airborne Deployment troops walking onto the table. They provide a valuable role without ever having to move.
    • The nice thing about Fugazi compared to, say, a Fusilier or CSU, is that you don't need to "tie them" to the location of your link team. When you deploy your link, you need to put them in terrain that will let them hide, while projecting their linked firepower. This means your link team probably can't cover the blind spots or odd corners of your table, which will naturally be exploited by an aggressive, canny opponent. Fugazi can cover those blindpspots, shoring up your overall defense and giving you a bit more table presence.
    • Additionally, since Fugazi aren't part of a link, they can perform useful "utility" AROs while remaining expendable. The most common example here is that an enemy Camo token moves across a lane, and both your Link Team and your Fugazi can see it. If you Discover with your link team, the Camo token can fire, potentially picking off a link member and reducing your link bonuses. However, if you Hold with your link team, and Discover with your Fugazi, you're only risking an 8 point support piece, while leaving your link team free to defend itself if the opponent fires. This is a really important component of Sectorial play, where you definitely want your Link doing everything it can to protect itself, but you don't want an opponent simply counting on you to "Hold" all the time while you maneuver uninterrupted. Helots in VIRD are also good for this role.
    • Sniffer. If you fight an opponent with 12+ Camo tokens, which is a very realistic possibility versus Ariadna or certain Vanilla factions, you'll really love having Sniffer. When a Fugazi Deploys Sniffer, and then you use the Sensor ability, the Sniffer will reveal all Camo and Hidden Deployment units within 8 inches upon a WIP +6 check. Very, very useful for Discovering a high concentration of Camo tokens. Discovering those individually will take several Orders, with a high chance of failure. Sniffer and Sensor let you Mass-Discover multiple Camo opponents.
    • Repeater. Sometimes you want to Hack something, and when you do, having a 6-6 unit with a Repeater to get close to your Hackable target is really nice. PanO won't always want to hack things, but it's nice to have a speedy, expendable unit that can sprint up the table and give you that option quickly. For NCA, perhaps you're gunfighting with your Swiss Guard or TAG, and you don't want an enemy Hacker preying on them. Being able to move a Fugazi nearby to support them, and allow your Hackers to act through the Fugazi's Repeater, helps provide some protection.
    • Simply being fast. 6-6 is great In some ITS missions, you'll want to have something that simply moves quickly, and doesn't need a gun or a strong ability to attack. Capture and Protect, Supplies, PowerPack, these are all missions where you may need to simply run a fast unit someplace critical in order to score, either by picking up an item or parking on a key objective. In these cases, the combat effectiveness of a unit might be totally irrelevant... If you just need to pick up a Supply Crate to score, you might not need a 68 point Swiss Guard who only slogs 4-4. A fast unit might make all the difference.
    The Pathfinder does a lot of these things, but the lack of Mimetism and the increased point cost change its role quite a bit.

    • The big thing with the Pathfinder is that it's a fast Specialist. Similar to the point of the Fugazi being 6-6... If you've beaten your opponent's defensive units into submission (something that PanO is very good at) then you may not want a slow, expensive unit to do your button pushing. In these situations, simply having a 6-4 unit that can pingpong between multiple consoles and score them all might make the difference between winning a game in the last turn, or losing a game because you lack the orders to flip consoles or achieve your mission. This is especially important for NCA, who lacks typical midfield Specialists and button pushers, and relies very heavily on beating the opponent down before scoring the mission late-game.
    • Don't leave home without Sensor. Even with MSV3, don't leave home with Sensor. Discovering things with a Short Skill and a WIP roll is such a drain. Any time you can discover multiple tokens with Sensor, it almost always saves you a significant amount of Orders.
     
    Sangarn, volgo, Minos and 14 others like this.
  8. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    This is one of the best single posts on PanOceanian Tactics which has ever been posted on this forum.

    If you aren't paying attention to this then you are not playing PanOceania to its best potential.
     
    Stiopa, Arkaon1125 and Tourniquet like this.
  9. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    I think i'll script this in my mind!! Thanks
     
  10. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    Based on your suggestions i've tried to shrink an elephant in a mouse hole , this is the result! Any suggestion (despite tryng to play a Jotum at 200 pts is.... Hard)

    Vanilla Jean + Jotum V2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4 [​IMG]3
    JOTUM MULTI HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, D.E.P. / . (2 | 103)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    2 SWC | 200 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The AVA of the Fugazi forced me to have only 1. I can try to have 2 of them but with the remaining 8 point i don't know what i can add and use properly!
    I can put 2 Fugazi and 1 Mulebot with repeater and Minesweeper. This is +1 order in the economy of orders and have the usefull baggage (reload the D.E.P. of the Jotum)
     
    #10 Arkaon1125, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  11. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I wouldn't overstress the Fugazi... That logic is most applicable in NCA and Acon, where the focus of your roster is very narrow, and you get AVA3 for Fugazi. Some of the strategy for a Fugazi can be used by the Warcor and Tech Bee though. It's important to remember that, in larger games, having the Fugazi in a smaller second combat group lets them support your heavy-hitters in your primary group. When you're playing one combat group, and it's already less than 10 orders, a lot of the disposability and utility of Fugazi is negated. When you have 16-17 Orders, you can afford to throw a Fugazi away, or spend a few Orders sweeping mines. When you have 7 Orders, you really don't have any disposable units.
     
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  12. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    So how to squeez That Jotum
    :P?
     
  13. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    The Fugazi's still a good unit to include in your list, simply because it's cheap and fairly self-sufficient as a DZ defender. But you probably don't want to sprint it into antipersonnel mines, or setting up elaborate Repeater networks for hacking. You'll be relying a lot more on the Jotum's durability.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  14. Thandar

    Thandar Dedicated Aconteccan Supremacist

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    To be honest, playing TAG (and especially an expensive one like Jotum) in this format is a bit crazy, combining him with Joan (an expensive heavy infantry) is extremely crazy. I'm not denying that Joan is good, but this way (Joan + these irregular guys) you're paying about 17 points per order and this is something that you couldn't afford on 200 point game (300 points is completely other story). One infiltrating Assault hacker like Bandit or Al'Hawwa could easily ruin your day by hacking the TAG.
     
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  15. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    It'll be janky.

    You'll smash many opponents, but get brutally smashed in turn.

    Good luck either way!
     
  16. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

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    Don't forget... the Jotum is BTS 9... so even though he's vulnerable to hacks.. he's not without defenses in case of a failed reset. It's also WIP 13... so PanO brilliant!
     
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  17. Thandar

    Thandar Dedicated Aconteccan Supremacist

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    Jotum is great, but rather then Joan combo I'll run something that'll give him wider spectre of support tools... something along this:

    PanOceania
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]7 [​IMG]2
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    BOLT (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    JOTUM Lieutenant MULTI HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, D.E.P. / . (3 | 103)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    3.5 SWC | 200 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I'm not saying it's a brilliant list, I just put it on while waiting on my breakfast to come. But it'll give him a better protecttion against assymettical warfare which many factions rely on while dealing with PanO T.A.G.s.
     
    theradrussian and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  18. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion, i'll try for that too.
    I just finshed a match vs an Haqquislam opponents, the mission was the (can't remember the name) numeber 9. $ classified (but public) objective to do, the one who does the most get the match.
    This was His List

    Qapu Khalqi
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9
    GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    GHULAM Hacker (Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20)
    DJANBAZAN HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    JANISSARY AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36)
    HAWWA' Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)

    3.5 SWC | 200 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Was a fine match, the engineer used properly his mine and killed the enemy Djazaban (he tryet to hunt him but i deployed some mine and one landed near his feet wehn the drop bear denotaned killed him). The rest was done basically by the Jotum alone. Killed the sniper, the most of the fireteam while the hack feared to come closer. At the End Jotum was the one that did the msot things while Joan did the rest of the mission ( I neede a Veteran troop to accomplish some on the classified mission, she was the only one). Final point a win for 6 - 2
     
    Thandar likes this.
  19. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    "The rest was done basically by the Jotum alone"

    This is likely how most of these games are going to play out.

    With a side order of "turn three Joan rampage".
     
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  20. Arkaon1125

    Arkaon1125 Member

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    The match caould be summarized this way. I wasted a couple of order "Activate Fugazi - Die from Aro. Activate Palbot - Die From Aro"
    The rest was 100% Jotum shoot to things.
    Turn three: no more things to shot, Joan push buttons / do mission.