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[Fluff] Why is Phoenix one of the last 'veteran' Myrmidons?

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Tongfa, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    Was rereading some of the fluff and Phoenix's is that he's one of the last of the "first generation" of Myrmidons. What do you think constitutes "final death" for an Aleph aspect?
     
  2. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    fighting the combined army with Cube 2.0 turned off
     
  3. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    This.

    Myrmidons were made to be front line troops against the CA. Dying out in the battlefield against the CA is almost a surefire guarantee for true death if your cube isn't recovered (and not infected).
     
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  4. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    Right, but while that would most certainly kill your current 'iteration' - what's stopping Aleph from bringing the first generation from old back-ups, a la Diomedes?
     
  5. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    aleph turns the cube off if they engage CA. scared of sepsitor
     
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  6. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Cubes arent copies. they are (And yes its BS but moving on) quamtun entangled.

    Such that the experiences where you are affects the cube back in woop woop. no i dont know how this works with outrage, but its supposed to be the explanation
     
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  7. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    Neat. So 'where' and 'how' you gett fragged affects your cube even if it's stored in woop woop land.
     
  8. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    I like that take - it adds a sense of consequence to the 'deaths' in Infinity - even for the Aleph aspects.

    Also that's a cool take on why the OG post-humans (excluding Dart) don't have Cubes. In light of the above, their survival is even more insured than your regular Aleph Aspects.
     
  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Real Death, by canon, happens in 2 ways for Aleph-derived Aspects (named Myrmidons, Shakti, etc... and, in fluff and aside from rules, to all non-character troops in the OSS and ASS): first, they are "deleted" by Aleph in the main server. Second, they follow battle protocols against the CA, in which they are ordered to disconnect their Cube and activate a suicide enzime if they had lost connection with Aleph, to ensure the EI won't get a backdoor to Aleph. They are placed in a "kill on sight" list thereafter.

    As to why are not "copies" of the dead aspects simply sleeved in a new body and sent back, it is simple security protocols: if the EI has enough of a sample of aspects, it can attempt to infiltrate Aleph by simulating being the "recovered copy now active" of an aspect they had captured, so the only way Aleph has to keep the EI out for sure is to remove entirely those aspects from the active rooster. They could still be in cold storage (think a CD-ROM or even a cube stored with no connection at all to any energy source, reading device or energy source), but they won't be activated while the CA is there as a menace.
    This is, mostly, the same reason Tony Macayana can't be brought back to life from a stored copy: the PanO high command can't be sure the attack that killed her did not get any data that would allow enemy units to compromise military operations.

    In short, a scorched earth policy is enforced because how little and how fearsome is the VoodooTech, specially the Sepsitor.

    Those "remotely pilot" the Lhost. Which is bullshitted into the rules by giving them G:Remote Presence nested inside of G: Jumper, only to add "Courage" to the lhosts without NWI (proxies Mk3 & 4).
     
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  10. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

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    Well the g rem presence also means that the vwni ones have an extra wound if they take 2 wounds in one go, due to two unconciousness levels.
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    No you dont, you lack STR characteristic.
     
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  12. RecklessPrudence

    RecklessPrudence Well-Known Member

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    It's kinda annoying that Remote Presence lets Engies reroll to repair, and Cube lets Doctors reroll to heal, but somehow posthumans missed out on both of those - if you flub the roll, that body's dead.

    (does it let an Engineer reroll if they were repairing a piece of kit like the Mk2's TO Camo or using glue solvent on them, or something? That would be something, at least)
     
  13. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, that makes them immune to sepsitor.
     
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  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    To be really strict with RAW... Does the Sophotect counts as Medic AND Engineer? If so, the Sophotect COULD repeat the rolls to recover unconscious Proxies.

    Been waiting for an answer to that one since July 2017. And I'm still waiting, so I suppose that for CB it's one of those "glaringly obvious asnwers" they don't even deign to acknowledge.
    Like the end of the Treason Event, which would last according to them until the next article in the web about that... which has still not come.
     
  15. choponet

    choponet Member

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    Interesting, can they use two skills at the same time?
     
  16. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    No, because the rerolls don't depend on Equipment or Skills a model has, but rather a Short skill or a Long skill it is performing.

    Sophotect can declare it is performing Short skill "Engineer" or it can declare Short skill "Doctor", but it cannot do both at the same time.
     
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  17. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I think nowhere it's stated to be possible, so I should say no. Also, Zoe is another dual engineer + something, and I think that if a HI enemy gets inside of her Repeater range, she can either detonate D-Charges OR make a hacking ARO, but never both (mind you, detonate D-Charges only requires to spend a short order or an ARO, it doesn't say it has to be a certain kind of ARO).

    Meh, it's, as always, a redaction problem, because "Engineer" is used both in english and spanish (which is kind of a facepalm, since an engineer does not perform "engineer" but "engineering" in both languages) interchangeably in the skills entry.
    And surprisingly, in the short order/ARO detonate D-Charges the "troop with the Engineer skill" is written, so it's not like the writers were unaware of th distinction.
     
  18. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    You are ignoring what I said, and what it says in the text for command tokens:
    Do you see the "trying to use the special skill" part? It doesn't matter for Command Tokens how many skills you have. The question is, which one are you trying to use, that is, what did you declare as your Short skill?

    So if you're removing Burnt state from Mk.II using Engineer skill, then yes, you can reroll the check. You still can't choose to restore STR to it, as the Postman is at its maximum STR, which is 0.

    Please don't try to invent rule controversies where there is none. We have plenty of other, real ones.

    Lastly and unimportantly, in English "engineer" can be both a noun or a verb. "We need to engineer the transmission system." "That car was engineered really well." "CIA helped engineer the overthrow of Allende."
     
    #18 Nemo No Name, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The funny part is that while reading those pieces back at the time, I found that the use of Command Tokens allow for engineers to repeat rolls on any troop with Ghost, while in the Engineer skill it mentions it can spend command tokens to rerroll on a list of Ghost (that does not include the Mnemonica).

    In Spanish, its not, yet the rulebook says "engineer" (ingeniero) everywhere but where I mentioned "uses the Engineer skill".

    Not trying to create controversies. Just pushing so the Jumper L1 has "Remote Presence" removed and just grants Courage. Its kinda useless to have a nested skill inside skills that are not applicable, frankly, and now we know the Jumper L2 troop has no STR either.
     
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  20. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    This is what the wiki says now. You can reroll rolls to "repair", which is an english verb that is related to engineering. Doctoring something would be "heal".

    However, there is even simpler limitation. This is clearly in context of skill Engineer, which is if you check, is a Short skill. Not an automatic one. Hence, you don't get it's benefit all the time, you only get to use Engineer skill when you are, well, using the Short skill Engineer.

    Don't know Spanish, haven't read the Spanish rulebook, can't help you there.

    While I somewhat agree with your goal, this is the wrong way to try and get to it. You're just creating confusion for people who don't have the surplus time and will (like I do) to parse and crosscheck the rules, and helping your goal not at all.

    We don't know that. There's no Jumper L2 yet.