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First PanO List

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Tyrendian, Dec 29, 2017.

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  1. Tyrendian

    Tyrendian New Member

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    So, I'm just getting into infinity and playing around with building my own lists for the first time. Watched battle reports / played practice games, but never played to game w my own selections before. First attempt at PanO, had previously been looking at a Core / Harris / Swiss list but kind of wound up liking this one.

    [​IMG] Neoterran Capitaline Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] UHLAN HMG, Feuerbach / . (2 | 99)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    [​IMG] SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68)
    [​IMG] HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] HEXA Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] AUXILIA Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    General concept/Proposed tactics:

    Defensive fireteam in backfield supported by the Uhlan, Camo shell game forward units, one of them a solid gunfighter the others specialists who can have a real chance at pushing through to objectives. The idea would be to use the Uhlan to clear out the enemy's MSV units [good armor and long range weapons, w most anti-tag stuff being closer range] where possible and the Swiss to keep them honest.



    Questions:
    I'm seeing a lot of 2 group NCA lists filled with Auxilia, is that the stronger build?

    Thoughts on the TO camo/shell game tactical layer and using the Uhlan's heavier armor/long range weapons to engage the hard counters to it? [Aquilla/Nisse/equivelents]

    Why am I seeing missile launchers vs snipers as the obvious ARO focused special weapon in lists? Seems like the sniper is almost universally better, higher Dam, better active turn burst, and only a handful of regular points more.

    Thoughts on that FO/Deployable repeater vs the medic? I know that they're not likely to save anyone, and with hacker options, being able to drop a repeater near my own non-hackable troops might be useful vs any opponents in my backfield.

    Uhlan vs another swiss [probably rocket launcher or a hacker swapped for one of the hexas]

    Will I have enough orders to fuel this?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    You have no infiltration units, so the Hexas, Swiss Guard and the Uhlan will be deployend on your deployment zone (just in case "forward units" refers to infiltrating ^^). Also, no shell game for the Uhlan, since he uses a big Camo marker while the others use a S2 one.
    Your "defensive fireteam" is just a cheerleading squad with an exposed sniper, I would suggest exchanging him for a Missile Launcher one (since you plan on using them as defensive pieces), also remember you have limited range in the other fusiliers, so unless you plan on moving forward with them once the ARO is dead, just hide them. For that very reason I might suggest changing the Swiss guard in favour of an Aquila, to hunt/reply to those MSV enemies you mention (there is a high chance they will use smoke to pick and kill your troops, so... carefull there). I also wouldn't think the Uhlan is good against them: all MSV2 troops have access to sniper rifles of some kind, HMG, heavy rocket launchers or missile launchers, and if they have smoke the things will go that way: from inside an smoke template a sniper will Discover against the Uhlan and fire against other exposed troop, and in his next order it will fire against the Uhlan imposing a -12 (smoke, cover, bad distance for you), with you having to choose between rolling at CD3 or dodge at PH 9, with either 4 ARM rolls at 6 or 2 at 9 (and if it's Limited Insertion, the K1 rifles are almost assured to show up, so you might be rolling ARM at 50%).
    Remember: anti-TAG stuff are usually missile launchers and Multi/k1 sniper rifles, all of which have a range advantage on you and will ignore your Camo because of MSV. Heavy Rocket Launchers and Feuerbachs have the same range as the HMG, and the k1 combi rifles are short range but can be found easily in the Combined Army (Morat vanguards and Unidrons).


    The Auxilia is one of the best troops because you get a disposable sincronized unit for 4 points, which gives a lot of flexibility and lets you make intuitive attacks the Auxilia wouldn't be able to, Discover with both the bot and the auxilia, etc..., not to mention it forces enemies who are attacked by both to dodge a template and 3 combi shots. And for +1 point, you also get a Forward Observer, meaning a troop who can capture objectives and mark enemies or blind them if needed.

    The missile launcher is a cheaper ARO piece that will give pause a lot of people: fail the FtF and face 3 ARM rolls, and you can choose between placing a template (no ARM bonus because of cover, potentially pick more enemy troops in the blast) or not (and it becomes AP, so ARM/2 to the enemy profile for those 3 ARM rolls...). It also is always Burst 1, so using it in the reactive turn makes it lose nothing... and if you link it to Burst 2 it becomes a fearsome roadblock. Bottom line, those are troops you won't be using in your active turn, while Multi Sniper ones are... but then again, the missile launcher is a bigger threat!
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
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    Hi, Tyrendian. Welcome to Infinity and the Hyperpower ;)

    Some general advice for new players, as well as basic guidelines for creating good list and playing it well:

    First and most importantly, start small. Play a few 100 pts games, add 50 pts when you're feeling comfortable with your army, repeat the process until you'll get to 300. This way you'll get plenty of experience without getting overwhelmed.

    1) Orders are life. Make sure to have at least 8+ Regular orders in your main combat group. It's better to use one larger combat group - two smaller groups will be order-starved pretty quickly, when they'll take 1-2 casualties.

    2) Use heavy weapons. You have to be able to cover all possible ranges with your weapons. Basic rule of thumb: 1 sniper or Missile Launcher for long range, 1 HMG for medium to long range, 1-2 Spitfires for medium range firefights. Add to that 1-2 shotguns and/or Chain Rifles for close range fighting.

    3) Specialists win games. Your heavy weapon troopers are there to put the enemy on the back foot. Then you should focus on the objectives, and for that end your list should usually include 4-6 various specialists to deal with various objectives. Infiltrating or AD specialists are especially useful, as is KHD if you have access to it.

    4) Without tactics your list is nothing. Lists do not win games, period. List building is secondary in Infinity, it's much more important to know what you want to do with your units. Think of your list as a toolbox for solving various situations on the battlefield.

    5) Know your enemy and know yourself. This is the core of Sun Tzu's Art of War. You need to know what your units are capable of, and what enemy units can do. There are hard and soft counters for everything in Infinity; learn what your enemy can use and how to counter it, learn what tactics you can use yourself.

    Note, that those are very general rules. You can bend or even break them, if you have a specific plan and you know what you're doing and why.

    Now, on to your questions:

    "Horde" lists (2 full or almost full combat groups, mostly light units), are generally strong, though they're not dominating the field as they used to about two years age. CB took steps to balance the rules, so elite armies are pretty much on the same level now. Auxilia are very good light units in general - poor statline, but disposable flamethrower makes them very useful both in attack and defence, and FO option makes them cheap backup specialists. It's not necessarily a stronger build, but it's a viable strategy.

    TO shell game is a very good approach, though it's pricy if you plan to include any Swiss Guard. The strategy you've described should work well - Uhlan is a hunter-killer and shines in that role; just remember to hide and re-camo it after attacks. HMG against light targets, Feuerbach against everything with ARM 5+ and in ARO. Works best, if you can have the obvious approach to your TAG covered by a hidden TO unit - this can make for a deadly surprise for enemy units and make him lose multiple orders for no gain.

    Compared to snipers ML has much bigger damage output against heavy targets, like SHI and TAGs. It also has a template mode, which can be punishing against fireteams or other closesly bundled units. Add TO Camo to the mix, and you'll get Swiss Guard ML, one of the most deadly defensive units in the game.

    Paramedics in general aren't there to heal anything. Your roll is target's PH-3 without re-roll that Doctors can get, so the chances aren't good. They're there as backup if you don't have the Doc or can't reach the target easily - better to have a crappy chance than none at all. FOs are usually more useful, both as specialists and for Flash Pulse ARO, and that Deployable Repeater can be handy with our access to KHD, though if he's a part of fireteam you won't be moving it up the field.

    Compared to Uhlan second Swiss will be slower, with different weapon range bands (at least ML or Multi Rifle), so you won't be as maneauverable, though you'll be able to squeeze in some better support - a Doc, an Auxilia, maybe a Garuda, etc.

    As for orders - your first turn will be probably used to hut down enemy heavy hitters or order pool with your Uhlan. Next turns you'll have to move your specialists forward, maybe using Uhlan or Swiss if there's an opening in enemy lines that you can exploit without burning orders. You'll be generally orer-starved, but if you can bait enemy to attack Uhlan and get punished by AROs, you should still be ahead of your opponent.

    If you want to keep both Uhlan and SG I'd tweak the list a bit:

    [​IMG] Neoterran Capitaline Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] UHLAN HMG, Feuerbach / . (2 | 99)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    [​IMG] SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68)
    [​IMG] HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] BIPANDRA Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This gives you better access to specialists, stronger defence and some "Plan B" options. Drawback - obvious Lieutenant.

    If you want to exchange Uhlan for a Swiss:

    [​IMG] Neoterran Capitaline Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SWISS GUARD Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 70)
    [​IMG] SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68)
    [​IMG] HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] GARUDA Tacbot Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Garuda counters the decrease to mobility and provides another attack vector. Drawback - if you're going first enemy can use Command Token to make you lose two orders.

    In both examples Fusiliers can swap MSR for ML to further tweak the lists.

    Good luck!