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Fireteams changes in CHA

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by AkiPL, Mar 31, 2022.

  1. AkiPL

    AkiPL Active Member

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    So... it is almost two weeks since new links has arrived.

    CHA seems to be one of those few armies that suffers from the change.

    Grey+Volunteers core is not a pure link. Now additionally 112 can join but he's not have a keyword (so no purity here, where is France it is treated as Metro).
    Wallance is no longer a superstar that can help any link (I mean he's still great and Wildcard but besides Highlanders he has no keywords to make links "pure").

    Mormaers and Greys can form a pure Haris which is great.
    Also Wulvers got incresed AVA to 5 so we, finally, don't need Cadin or Wallance to have pure core with them.

    As a "dead man wish" I would love to see Haris option for our Cameronians (and McMurrough), but that probably would never happen.

    How do you feel about them?
    Is anyone still using good, old, Scotland or everyone already moved to Kosmo? :D
     
  2. PappaChu

    PappaChu Well-Known Member

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    I kinda feel like they got passed over with the changes due to being a retired army, which is too bad
    No real new link options (aside from ava 5 wulvers, and i suppose the 112 if you want it for some reason) is a pretty big bummer, since without them or without the grey counting as a volunteer it's hard not to see this as an actual nerf to CHA

    That said, maybe a pure link of volunteers will free up some points to do something interesting, just thus far I haven't really explored it much
     
  3. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    CHA and MRRF are in a similar boat, they were already hurting and crutching on the "one good guy in a cheap link to shoot well".
    Now that has been taken away, it's going to make CHA rely even more on smoke-and-stab tactics than they ever did. Anyone who can counter that approach well is going to have a field day against CHA
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    He has (Wulver) in the Wulver Fireteam.

    CHA also gained:
    Haris for Volunteers, and for Highlander Greys. Highlander Greys also gained Duo, but that has less impact.
    A Galwegian Core doesn’t have to include Wallace.
    Wallace no longer needs to be the Lieutenant to be in a Fireteam.
     
  5. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't really address the fact that the faction can't shoot for toffee now though.
     
  6. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

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    Looked at in isolation I suppose that's true, but most of the targets that we struggled with have also been taken down a notch. I think we will have to give it a few games before passing judgement.

    I for one finally see a useful niche for the Mormaer in a haris, since it will not as regularly face links with full bonuses.

    Likewise, the Wulver haris might see some play, where I previously only ran them as a full core, as might the Scots haris.

    We'll see. I have a game scheduled on Sunday to try them out.
     
  7. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    I've had a couple of games under the new system and so far found that it feels a bit like going back to n2.
    Vi's mods, camo and smoke+stuff are back to being king as there isn't the raw firepower to punch through good gunners in a lot of factions now
     
    Jumara likes this.
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    OK, I’ll shut up and won’t bother to point out factual mistakes (Wallace and Wulvers) or mention compositional changes that appeared to have been missed (new Haris options).
     
  9. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Wulvers and Wallace don't have anything that goes over 24". Mormaers are alright but are gonna get unstuck by any vis mods really quickly on bs13. If they land a hit, great, but they're often gonna be spannering shots down range on 10's against mimetism 3 which is the same as a core linked volunteer HMG. Not exactly stellar options.
    Pieces that have both msv and mimetism are gonna be the bane of this faction as they can force crappy dice engagements and deal with smoke tactics at same time
     
  10. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

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    I think that was true before as well. I had a really tough time dealing with any kind of linked MSV even before the changes. I usually ended up chain rifling them, often with an SAS or long-bombing Cameroonian, or if possible bypassing them to score the mission. This is not a new problem for the sectorial, and in my mind, if I was engaging that kind of piece in an ftf I was already doing something wrong.

    The new bane of CHA will be the flash pulse bots. You mark my words!

    Edit: And for long range firefights, it's the Grey that is the workhorse of the sectorial. Mormaers are only for when you accidentaly had a few more points than you knew what to do with...
     
    #10 FlipOwl, Apr 2, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  11. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    yeah thats kinda what i was getting at. without being able to power up a grey and burst your way through defenses, you're literraly down to fall-back plans of SAS/uxia for all tricky problems. I feel like these link changes will hem a few factions into very narrow builds that will often have very rough time vs certain opponents.
    Anything that has msv, mimetism and links is gonna be very difficult to get around. Stuff like the outrage link (knauf who has msv, mimetism, MSR, +3 discover and +1 burst) is gonna be a nightmare to deal with as he punches through smoke, good odds of punching through camo and can shred targets. even if DA/AP doesnt work against targets, its still potentially 4 dam15 shots to save. I'm sure there's even better stuff out there too
     
    #11 csjarrat, Apr 3, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
  12. mightymuffin

    mightymuffin Well-Known Member

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    Have only tried them once in a 250pts Annihilation mission - ran a Core of Wulvers, Wallace & Cadin, plus a Haris of Mormaer + Greys, (with 2 Volunteers to act as my Lt and cheerleaders).
    The army ended up being very defensive, as I let my opponent come to me. The Core did a lot of heavy-lifting, but the Haris provided decent support. Will need to try them more to see how they properly fare.

    In terms of my take on the new teams; Wallace not needing to be Lt is great, as well as no longer needed for Galwegians. OK, it's not great that Grey + Volunteers is viable, but Greys are pretty cheap so a core of just them isn't out of the question.

    Slightly odd that Scots Guards can no longer Duo, but Greys can - in N3 it was the other way around.
     
  13. ShadowDrake777

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    Played my first event after 2 years of not playing and went with CHA. I was happy with the way my 15 unit lists performed at the event.

    Mormaer Haris w/HMG, T2 Rifle and Grey with T2 Shotgun performed very well that +2dmg is fantastic.
    Doc on Bike is great.
    Wallace leading Highlanders as a backup shooter or to bring extra smoke, templates or CC was good value. Though I miss putting him in volunteers.
    McMurrogh and 2nd Cameroonians performed well and great for ignoring the flash pulse bots.
    SAS and Uxia filled their skirmish and infiltration roles.

    CHA played well and still felt like Caledonian

    My opponents were Kosmoflot, White Banner and Tunguska
    Missions: Rescue, Frontline and Quadrant Control
     
    csjarrat likes this.
  14. Bazlord Prime

    Bazlord Prime Member

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    @FlipOwl do you still find the Grey link the best option for long range? I don't know when it lost the AP from its AP HMG, but even though it got cheaper, that and the +3 BS down to +1 BS is a bit of a backward slide. Does a Mormaer Haris with AP HMG look better now?

    Just asking as I read your excellent run down of CHA units as I prepare to take them to the table for the first time, and am wondering how the N4 & Fireteam changes might've hanged some of those opinions.

    Thanks!
     
    burlesford and Time Bandit like this.
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