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Fireteam skill declarations

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by konuhageruke, Jan 15, 2020.

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  1. konuhageruke

    konuhageruke Well-Known Member
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    Soo... how is it in the end? There was a discussion about it, but I don't know the outcome/
    If I have a fireteam of 5. One of them is in CC or in IMM state, can other members MOVE?
    According to both states you cannot declare MOVE skill. According to Fireteam rules "all members of a Fireteam must declare the same Order, declaring the same Short Skills."
    By those combined If I lock one of members in CC or in IMM, the rest can't declare much.
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Literally the next line:
    "Any Short Skills of the Order, or Entire Order, a Fireteam member cannot perform are considered an Idle."
     
    WarHound, Xeurian and ijw like this.
  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    This is not correct. Individual team members not being able to perform the declared Skill(s) is explicitly covered in http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_in_the_Active_Turn

    'Any Short Skills of the Order, or Entire Order, a Fireteam member cannot perform are considered an Idle. However, troopers will perform the Short Skills of that Order they are able to perform. In this situation, the other Fireteam members will perform their Order normally.'

    The only bit that's contested is whether the Fireteam are restricted to Skills that can be declared by the Team Leader. I strongly recommend playing it consistently with Coordinated Orders, Synch, Servant and Antipodes, where you declare Skills for the whole lot and then see who can perform them.
     
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  4. Florian Hanke

    Florian Hanke Does not know how to stop building terrain.

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    And adding: No in the case where you make the CC/IMM trooper the Team Leader, since "all members of a Fireteam must declare the same Order, declaring the same Short Skills of the Order or Entire Order *as the Team Leader*" – the team leader cannot move**, so that order is not legal, so the others cannot declare it.

    **In the case of being Engaged (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Engaged), "they can only declare CC Attack, Coup de Grâce, Dodge and those Skills which specify that they can be used in CC Combat or in the Engaged state, as Reset."
     
    #4 Florian Hanke, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  5. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    Can you please point out where it's stated that idle can be declared in CC? is it due to "no LoF" tag in Idle?
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Interacting_with_a_Close_Combat here it says "troop in base to base contact with an enemy engaged in Close Combat can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, or other skills usable in Close Combat."

    However in "idle" nothing specifically calls out CC
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Idle
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    You can't. But that's not relevant - you declare a Skill with the Fireteam, and then the members not able to perform the Skill will instead perform an Idle. Nobody has declared Idle.
     
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  7. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Does this mean that when a fireteam with steath, once the fireteam leader declare shoot everyone declares shoot, allowing the opponent to respond in ZoC ARO to any of the troopers. And once Resolution Steps come, all the fireteam member now perform an idle?

    This would also obviously break markerstate (should there be a marker state involved in the Fireteam, such as Patroclus for example)?
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There are no camouflage enabled troops that can be in a Fireteam and likely never will, however, this is analogous to Coordinated Orders as well; yes they will all technically declare BS Attack (even if they won't necessarily perform it after all skills have been declared during resolution) which will break Camouflage, Holo2, Holo3, IMP, etc and will prevent the use of Stealth (because BS Attack is not a Short Movement Skill)
     
  9. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    It's also the case for G: Sync markers like the K9 Strelok or a Cybermasked Scylla/Peacemaker. The Controllers and Synced troopers are all revealed by a BS Attack (or other skill that breaks marker state) Declaration, even if they don't have LoF/are out of range/can't perform the skill for any other reason.
     
  10. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    We have marker state in Fireteam in the form of Holo3.

    So this would mean that poor Patroclus loses his holo-echoes if Achilles decides to shoot?

    - - - - -

    Unless we can apply the example of Holo1 and Fireteam.

    Holoprojector L1 and Fireteam Example:
    A Fireteam Core of Janissaries with a Hafza in Holoprojector L1 state imitating a Janissary, declares a Move + BS Attack Order. The Hafza, who is not the Team Leader, moves and provides support to the Team Leader, which is considered an Idle. As this Short Movement Skill doesn't require a Roll, the Hafza is not revealed, and so remains in the Holoprojector L1 state.

    However, in the following Order, the Team Leader declares Dodge, so all the Fireteam members make a PH Roll. In this situation, the Hafza is revealed automatically.

    - - - - -

    But this opens up the question of is it the resolution of an order rather than the declaration that makes you reveal? Or probably it that when declaring an order the other troopers are not doing a declaration unless they can execute it. Because the former questions would create a lot more issues.
     
    #10 Diphoration, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  11. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Yes, because he has Declared a BS Attack, which is a cancellation clause for the Holoecho state.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, as you can see in my answer, I altered part of the answer allowing for other than just Camouflage.

    Cancellation for all Marker states depend on what skills are declared. Note that Holo1 is different due to the example, so in my opinion Patroclus would drop Holoecho, but retain Holoprojector states.
     
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