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Fireteam changes in Bakunin

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Tristan228, Mar 24, 2022.

  1. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    What’s new?
    • Moderators can form a Haris team.
    • Clockmaker is exclusive to Moderators now and grants composition bonuses now
    • Avicenna doesn’t provide those bonuses
    • neither do Riot Grrls
    • Reverends are now compositiony mixable with composition bonusses
    • FIDDLER CAN LINK WITH THE GRRLS! And provides the composition fonuses
    • Taskmasters and Morlocks can form a Haris, Morlocks then become Regular
    • of the three Wildcards Tsyklon, Vostok and Wolfi only Wolfgang provides the composition bonuses to Moderators
    What can we do with that?
    In general
    • the composition bonuses only matter for Fireteams that are destined to exceed the 3 members unless one really wants to be better at discovering.
    • including a trooper without the composition bonus allowance hurts the full core fireteam more than losing the 5th member would.


    More specific

    • The Moderator Core Fireteam on its own is still worse than with Riot Grrls mixed in
    • But they shine as a cheap base for an aggressive non-hackable specialist taxi Haris e.g.:
    WOLFGANG AMADEUS MULTI Rifle(+1B), Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle, Pitcher / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 10)
    CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit [+1B]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18)

    0 SWC | 63 Points
    • Wolfi generally can act as the Lt.’s bodyguard whilst supporting the team with the composition bonuses.
    • I guess the full Riot Grrl Fireteam is now back in business due to the Taskmasters’ inability to provide the composition bonuses.
    • the Grrls got an excellent new specialist with Fiddler (although she’s very good unlinked and with her Jackbots) that opens new options whilst Avicenna can go back to her DZ hideout supporting the whole army from there with two tinbots.
    • Anyways the Tasky might be better off elsewhere running around with the Morlocks, quite sad that it is only an aggressive Haris team without the above mentioned taxi capabilities
    • The Reverends didn’t change much if at all (due to the composition bonuses for all of them)
    • likewise the Longarms
    Those are my fist thoughts and I might be wrong with some assumptions and didn’t see other possibilities, thus feel free to share your takes on this matter :blush:
     
  2. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    on the other hand if you lose your outside your link goes from 5-men +1 BS to a 4-men comp bonus +1 BS.
    it feels like dropping from 5 to 4 due to unlucky ARO is not as painful. A 5-men with comp bonus goes from the normal +3 BS down to +1 BS, a little better than before.

    Riot grll is still good with 4 moderator as their BS is so weak, there is no reason to go moderator core. unless you had defensive aro moderator, then the inclusion of high BS HI will reduce your BS MOD on sniper. The point I wanted to make is that for other core teams (and in other factions), losing Comp bonus is a serious incentive to stay pure fireteam. Like a base LI link in tunguska is BS12 securitate. You are unlikely to add a BS13 wildcard and lose +2 BS. But Moderator are so weak you don't care. Still, as you mention, taking a moderator haris is probably to best way to use them. There are better cores to take.

    in what stays, avicenna has comp bonus for Riot Grrl, so the pure Grrl team is back but also with a doctor.

    Tasky with morlocks will shine. 6 Pts regular orders. (admittedly, you do pay almost 50Pts for tasky)

    looking forward to Fiddler FTO, super-jump seem weird here, but in Tunguska she links with the jumping Cheerkillers.
     
    #2 Robock, Mar 24, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022
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  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Another nice thing these changes will allow for is creation of specialized Haris teams around basic LI, which is something I wanted for a long time.
     
  4. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    Right now I'm still in the mode of getting al the bonuses and I have no real clue how impactful that +1BS will be. But in general it seems that most of the HI + cheapo Dudes Core teams won't beable to get the composition bonuses at all. Also a full Moderator Core is cheap enough to assign the saved points to other troop like sin eaters or Prowlers or... well Taskmasters.
    But I guess in general wildcards with Mimetism or similar will be favoured in order to migitate the loss of the 2BS compared to the pure teams.

    Yes, the Super Jump is less useful than climbing plus and I'd be more happy with her being still able to climb anywhere, but well...
    Still having access to Avicenna without forfeiting the full bonuses is nevertheless good but my general experience was that I needed a doctor dearly on places where Avicenna in the Grrls team couldn't reach the unconcious troopers.

    TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / PARA CC Weapon(-6). (1 | 33)
    TASKMASTER Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun, Crazykoala / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 42)
    MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 6)

    2.5 SWC | 87 Points
    I somehow fancy this Haris with an extra Morlock despite being quite expensive.
     
  5. bodare

    bodare New Member

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    The Taskmaster/morlok x2 is Duo or Haris only.
     
  6. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    I know that's why I wrote 'extra Morlock'. 1st the Haris comprises the Tsyklon, Taski and Morlock, then, if either the Tsyklon or Morlock die, the Taski will be able to get himself another Morlock
     
    #6 Tristan228, Mar 24, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2022
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  7. bodare

    bodare New Member

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    How would that work with the morlocks being regular in a Taskmaster team? Would the new morlock be converted?
     
  8. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    I'd say no since orders and the order pool are counted during the orders phase thus the morlock would still be irregular during the turn it became a fireteam member
     
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  9. NorthernNomad

    NorthernNomad Well-Known Member

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    Actually the Reverends now get the +3 discover bonus in a Haris, which while not huge is a nice addition against Impersonator or Camo trying to gank your LT.
     
    #9 NorthernNomad, Mar 24, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
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  10. NorthernNomad

    NorthernNomad Well-Known Member

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    Had an interesting Idea for a Reverand Fireteam

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4
    REVEREND MOIRA MULTI Sniper Rifle, Zapper / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)
    REVEREND CUSTODIER (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Carbonite (+1 B)]) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 29)
    REVEREND CUSTODIER (Hacker, Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)
    KUSANAGI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 42)

    4 SWC | 138 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Now with the Composition Bonus giving a +1 BS at a 4 Man you could take team leaving the Sniper on a high perch to serve as a B2, BS13, Sixth Sense, Mim (-6) ARO Piece in turn 1 (or something to takeout their ARO pieces if you have first turn). Then you can leave the Sniper behind (dead or alive) and move up the board with an aggressive 3 man specialist team to take objectives or hold territory,
     
  11. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    Of course, it's a little bonus for them.
    Phew... I'd say give the nuns the complete core treatment since any visored guy with enough burst is able to knock them down in an instant...

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    KUSANAGI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 42)
    REVEREND CUSTODIER (Hacker, Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30)
    REVEREND HEALER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    REVEREND MOIRA MULTI Sniper Rifle, Zapper / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)
    REVEREND MOIRA E/Mitter, Zapper, Combi Rifle / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 31)

    3.5 SWC | 172 Points

    With the HMG Moira it becomes 5 points cheaper but still a hefty price for a bunch of cracked glass cannons...
     
  12. NorthernNomad

    NorthernNomad Well-Known Member

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    While the Custodier's White Noise, does mitigate this a bit.

    It is for that exact reason that I'm dubious that the full core is worth it. I really like the Harris as a specialist assault force. But adding another 30 point model with the same weaknesses to the same area of the board is a big ask.

    The thought I had was to have the Sniper Moira added to the list in place of a Sin Eater or TR bot style unit. Being in a fire team would limit deployment options but if you aren't worried about breaking cohesion after your first order it might not be too restrictive.

    I also think the added hacking ARO's and pitcher a 2nd Custodier brings more value than the additional weapons and NCO of a 2nd Moira. Especially since in N4 I have rarely found myself too tight on SWC in Bakunin.

    I think the 5 points for +2 BS, +1 PH, SO, Shock Immunity and NWI, with Kusanagi over the HMG Moira is more than worth it. Though if you are going with the 5 man the range might be what you value more.
     
  13. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    I think Riot Grrrls have one of the better 5-man teams in the game now. You can include super doctoring, super engineering and a Tinbot -6 in the team for a pretty cheap price point. The team can move quickly and aggressively, interact in 3 dimensions, brings some point defense, and can basically fix any problem that gets applied to it. The Taskmaster + Morlock Haris can complement them with aggressive play, or can actually just be a Burst 5 HMG now since BS13, Burst 5 suddenly transformed from "meh" to quite decent as a long range fire superiority piece. This is the only Sectorial I play where the interesting options distract me from the fact that this is a straight nerf.
     
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  14. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The Riot Grrl defensive missile launcher annoyance-tactic suddenly got a lot better with a Moderator haris, too. That's a cheap, nasty B2 long-ranged shooter with a visor and the ability to nicely dodge anything that puts it at a shooting disadvantage.

    Glad my Grrls are some of the few models I have fully and well painted: the new Core options are amazing. I have always loved Grrls as a resilient deathstar, and with the addition of an excellent Engineer who is not at all dead weight, they just got even harder to pull apart. Adding Drop Bears to their offensive capability too... they are going to hit like a ton of bricks, coming around corners with shotguns etc.

    Time to get moving on my Taskmaster though... That offensive Haris looks AWESOME for clearing out close combat areas.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9
    Fiddler FTO (Super-Jump) Contender(+1B), Drop Bears, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 28)
    AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
    RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
    RIOT GRRL Combi Rifle, Blitzen / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    MODERATOR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
    ZERO Combi Rifle, E/M Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    ZERO (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24)
    ZERO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    REAKTION ZOND Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  15. NorthernNomad

    NorthernNomad Well-Known Member

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    That is looking like a pretty nice option. Back in N3 when the Taskmaster had "Free Agent" I liked to put my Taskmaster in Group 2 and use the few orders on it in turn 1 before switching it to Group 1 for free afterwards. Now that it can form a Harris and get regular orders from 6 point Morlocks. I'm thinking it might be heading back to group 2 in some of my lists.

    Also the Morlock's assault pistols have already done work for me. B5 with cover will be nothing to joke about from a disposable 6 point troop.
     
    #15 NorthernNomad, Mar 30, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2022
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  16. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Here's a fun trick. Impetuous is not an order anymore. It is a skill that lets you activate like you had an order. This means that you can break your Task/Morlock haris in the Impetuous phase and activate them after having generated those regular orders for use elsewhere. Gives some interesting options if you have your list set up with multiple haris possibilities that you could form afterwards.
     
  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    That’s a pretty sweet way to scrape 4 orders of Suicide Squad action out of 12 points, on Turn 2 after they’ve been marched safely up the board under the Taskmaster’s watchful eye!

    Also love that the Taskmaster gets to babysit frothing Morlocks- kinda fluffy.
     
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  18. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    same technique gets really mean in Morats right now.
     
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  19. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    To clarify, since Fireteam can be cancelled during active and reactive turn. You would cancel it after the Tactical Phase and before the Impetuous Phase ? I suppose that would work as there is no restriction as to when you can cancel the fireteam as long as it is not during an Order.

    End of your turn, you can spend a command token to create a fireteam. Allowing you to once again convert both future Irregular orders to Regular, as long as they survive the enemy turn. That is efficient use of tokens, but a bit more risky.
     
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  20. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the timing really matters as long as it is after your Tactical Phase. Impetuous specifically does not generate orders so being in the link during Tactical Phase would not get in the way of that.

    • During the Turn's Impetuous Phase, the player may activate each Impetuous Trooper once, without spending an Order.
    • During the Turn's Tactical Phase, the player will place an Impetuous Token next to every Trooper with this Special Skill. This Token will be removed when the Trooper is activated, or at the end of the Impetuous Phase for any Trooper that has not been activated.

    The only thing I can see that would stop this are the "While in a Fireteam, the Frenzy and Impetuous Special Skills of a Trooper are not applied. ◼ If the Trooper leaves the Fireteam, any Frenzy and Impetuous Special Skills will apply again, in whatever state they were in when the Trooper joined the Fireteam." bullets in the annex. I could see an argument that since you did't place a Impetuous Token next to the unit due to the skills not being applied that you could not use the skill later, but there is nothign directly stating so that I can see.
     
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