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Fireteam bonus loss + G-Synch disconnect

Discussion in 'Rules' started by FlipOwl, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl New Member

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    Hi,

    I had a total brain fart at today's game.
    I have tried searching but cannot find anything conclusive. I thought I knew this but when someone asked I couldn't piece together the evidence from the rules:

    Q1: If the fireteam leader activates, is in coherency with the full link (say 5 members), Moves > 8" away from the other members (who stay in place) and Fires from that position, does the fireteam leader get the BS and burst bonuses? The rules tell us that the bonuses are lost if the leader is not in coherency, but the rules for coherency state that coherency is only lost at the moment a coherency check is failed, which can only happen at the conclusion step of the order.

    Q2: In a similar vein: Can a G:Synch bot that leaves its controller's ZoC in its first short skill perform its second short skill, or is it disconnected immediately?

    Thank you!

    /Filip
     
  2. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    The coherency checks are purposely timed. You can "slingshot" a trooper once, but at the final coherency check, the connection gets disconnected.

    In the Active Turn, the player must check Coherency at the start of the Order, after having declared the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order, but before measuring movement, if he has declared any.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Coherency
     
    #2 Daniel Darko, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
    FlipOwl likes this.
  3. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl New Member

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    Thank you for the reply. I thought so too, but then I got confused and thought the opposite, and then my brain broke.
     
  4. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    There are no easy answers...
    My brain is starting to break too:

    Fireteams: In active turn you declare a move and one of the members leaves coherency and therefor leaves the team. Now, the rules say, he does not get activated - and therefor does not generate an ARO - but he already moved. I'd say: too late?! If the ex-member gets shot at, can he still dodge, even if he is out of coherency and would not be able to perform the orders?!?! Problem!

    I guess, a trooper is at every point of his movement during his movement, and is at one time in coherency (and at another not anymore) and therefor part of the team until the final coherency check. Maybe you can slingshot with the first short skill being a move, because the units would otherwise leave the team midorder - which is not .... good.
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  5. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    If you have to check the initial coherency before you measure your movement (which is like 'before conducting it'),
    why should you declare your move as second short skill?

    How would that make any difference?

    Initial check: At the start of the order (before Move)
    Final check: Once the conclusion has finished.
     
    toadchild likes this.
  6. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    If you check coherency only before the movement, and after the conclusion,
    how can the trooper leave the team by failing coherency between these two steps?
     
    FlipOwl likes this.
  7. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    A declared move is always executed immediately. Good point, that you take a break after the declaration and before the actual movement and do the coherency check. It fits the timing saying "...after having DECLARED the first short skill of the order..."
     
  8. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's what I thought.
    So if you fail this initial coherency check,
    you have not been activated,
    but this will not matter (much) because you have not moved yet.

    Of course you might have triggered an ARO just by being activated,
    but those AROs are only declared after the execution first short skill
    (because, before that you won't know which movement paths will cross LoF),
    so there will not be much 'game-breaking' happening...

    If your first short skill is BS attack and you fail the coherency check,
    well, then your leader just decidied to leave his team behind...
     
    Daniel Darko likes this.
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    What are you getting at with the grey text?

    Nothing stops you:
    3. I declare Move. This Volunteer LSG is the leader. *measures coherency* Everyone is in coherency. This Volunteer Moves forward 4" and everyone else consolidates backwards 4". The Volunteer gets LOF to your Vanguard.
    4. Vanguard AROs with BS Attack.
    5. My Volunteer LSGs you with B3 placing the templates like such *places templates*
    6. The other troopers caught by the templates all Dodge.
    7. My Volunteer is at +6 for range, +3 for a 5-member Fireteam and -3 for cover: 16s. Your Vanguard is on +3 for range, -3 for cover: 11. *Rolls dice* you took two hits at DAM13.
    8. You have ARM1 so 13s and up Save. *rolls dice*, you tank your armour saves. Nice!
    9. Your a Morat so you don't need to roll Guts. But can if you want. I measure Coherency and, oh, surprise surprise my Volunteer is out of coherency and the Fireteam breaks because they were the Fireteam leader.
     
  10. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    It is wrong. I should have deleted it instead of making it grey. Sorry for the inconvenience.
    Thank you for your clarification.
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  11. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    So it's actually right ?
     
  12. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    You measure coherency twice during an order: after declaration of the first short skill/entire skill, but before actually doing anything (i.e. moving), and at the end of the order.
     
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  13. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    Why reason check Coherency 2 times
    1 is when I put my Team leader marker and 2 when I declared move?

    Breaking Coherency Game Example
    In the Active Turn, after declaring a Fireteam's first Short Skill of the Order, or Entire Order, any members out of Coherency with the Team Leader would leave the Fireteam and not be activated. Fireteam Bonuses would then be recalculated.

    How anyone can out ?) On this example
     
  14. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    You only check coherency in ARO once (at declaration but before performing the ARO). In this case, you can have a dodge out of coherency, but not actually check that until your own active turn when you spend an order on the team.
     
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  15. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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