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Finding a Place for Arslan

Discussion in 'Druze Bayram Security' started by Envihon, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. Envihon

    Envihon The Sword of Haqqislam, High Commander Envihon

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    I really want to use Arslan. I am making a themed army for once and my Druze are going to be the Umbrella Security Service from Resident Evil, I am making Arslan to look like HUNK in my army, one of my favorite characters from the series (Also, Arslan looks awesome in Outrage so). I really want to have him be a presence in the army because of this but every list I make, I don't include him. He is expensive but he is durable and he is a LT that can't be Isolated but a Druze can do that for 13 points less.

    I might include him if I am expected high visual mods from camo and ODD but other than that, just struggling to find a place for him. Anyone have anything? Have you taken him? Is he worth those 36 points?
     
  2. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    A man who likes to get his hands dirty, Arslan isn't someone who wants to sit in the back and let the underlings do all the work. He's a great point man in the mid range, but using him as your LT puts him at risk, risk that is helped mitigated by the Veteran skill of your other druze.

    I find the best way to understand Arslan is to take a look at his veritable arsenal he brings:
    • Multirifle (shock): With the increased damage from lethality, this combines the upside of a Red Fury with the damage of a spitfire. Useful for taking down one wound infantry, dogged, and NWI troops.
    • Multirifle (AP): Extra kick vs heavy infantry. Even on troops with with a measly 2 arm, this will be hitting as hard as a HMG. TAGs arent his usual targets, but either in a situation where all else fails or a light target of oppertunity presents itself (perhaps a gecko blocking your specialist?) The AP will help get the job done.
    • Multirifle (DA): While not recommended as an ARO piece, when oppertunity dictates or desperation sets in he has some savage stopping power with double armor saves damage 14 shots, burst 2 in a link.
    • Light shotgun: lethality upgrades your light shotgun into a fully fledged boarding shotgun. The only thing you miss are the AP rounds; if you're in a situation that you would like them, see above! This helps him to use terminal templates to attack groups of light infantry, stack BS modifiers (bs 13, +6 range, +3 link is 22 burst 3!), or help defend in ARO against an enemy turning a corner he's tucked safely behind.
    • Viral pistol: with your slew of midrange weapons you may think you already have a tool for every job, well lets top it off! Hitting as hard as a viral rifle, you'll appreciate this deadly weapon against targets with high armor and low BTS (Can you say Ariadna?)
    Arslan truly has a tool for every job (within range!) and in a fireteam can help deliver a specialist into the midfield, including a hacker which can give you yet another vector of attack!

    The MSV1 helps him hunt his midfield targets, the classic camo infiltrators, as well as help to mitigate TO and ODD. He's one of our best tools vs. Steel Phalanx besides the msv2 grunt sniper, judicious use of template weapons, or 6th sense hackers in a link team.

    His NWI helps him keep going in case he takes an unlucky hit (but beware of shock!), but don't think of him as a full fledged heavy infantry

    You take Arslan not to be a LT, but to be a swiss army knife of death who can happen to be your LT. He's a brawler who wants to bloody your opponents nose and move a team into position while doing it. If you find a need for him and you can't spare the points go ahead and make him your LT. Veteran will help mitigate LoL because I find whatever list he's in he's assumed to be your LT.

    Fireteam recommendations would be a HMG or Marksman rifle to either close the range and force down pesky snipers, a hacker for both a specialist and a new attack vector, extra druze bring along template weapons and a Brawler doctor helps keep the team healthy. An EM light grenade launcher in the link can help add to your Swiss army knife, giving you a proper tool to take down heavy infantry links, but burst 2 pitchers and sixth sense lvl2 (for heavy infantry with stealth) can keep them locked down as well.

    Like the Bayram force in general, toolboxes, toolboxes, and more toolboxes. Arslan wants to kill you, but he has to decide exactly what with :relieved:
     
    #2 Q.A.I., Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  3. Envihon

    Envihon The Sword of Haqqislam, High Commander Envihon

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    I think I was maybe stuck too much on him being my LT. Being a pure attack piece though, that is true. Now to find places for him in a link or if he could possibly lone wolf it as well. I will have to try him as an attack piece and see what happens.
     
  4. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
    Warcor

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    Yeah, I think he could be pretty sweet as a non-LT in an assault Haris link.
     
  5. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    I'm finding this is my favorite way to utalize him after a bit of experimenting. Use him to cut through light infantry and skirmishers and the EM lgl to throw a monkey wrench into tech units. They wont survive the reactive turn but hopefully they can use the chain colt to take a few troops with them. The D.E.P. has so far been mostly psychogical, but its nice to make them sweat and I have gotten a normal roll against an unlucky IMM-2 tag

    Druze Bayram Security
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG] ARSLAN MULTI Rifle, Light Shotgun / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
    [​IMG] DRUZE (Fireteam: Haris, X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Viral Pistol, CCW. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)

    1.5 SWC | 88 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #5 Q.A.I., Dec 26, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  6. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a pretty natural inclination, considering how obvious the available LT options are.

    It might be the way my lists are trending towards a single combat group this ITS season, but I feel like I might as well take a more durable LT if it's going to be an obvious one. Also, single group Bayram doesn't leave much room for LT decoys.
     
  7. Envihon

    Envihon The Sword of Haqqislam, High Commander Envihon

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    I think that is going to be the biggest weakness for DBS, obvious LTs. There is only three in the entire Sectorial and I think they are always going to be fairly obvious and easy to figure out. Impersonators and Van Zant are going to have an easy job should your opponent want to try and go for the throat like that.

    I really like that Arslan in a Haris though, I am definitely going to have to try that.
     
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  8. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Don't forget about Veteran L1 on these guys though. Your Druze are still going to provide regular orders. So depending on how you're list looks, it may not be a big deal.
     
  9. Envihon

    Envihon The Sword of Haqqislam, High Commander Envihon

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    This is also true but then you have to make sure that most of your list is Druze which wouldn't be too hard but you certainly wouldn't have the amount of orders that the Druze can have. Man, the Druze have some awesome things they can do with such a limited selection, I am trying to focus on Hassassin but they keep whispering to me.
     
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  10. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    I look at Arslan and basically see a slower Vet Kazak in terms of use. Good survivability, good mid-range and short-range weapons, and excellent lethality when considering the overall package. His effective range is not quite as good as the Vet Kazak (no X-Visor), and his ability to stack visual mods are more situational (MVS1 vs. Mimetism). In addition, he lacks a DTW so he can't threaten units with a template hit.

    That said, while I think he falls short in terms of a direct comparison, he has a few benefits. He's better during the active turn, trading SSL2 for MSV1, and packing a Multi Rifle instead of an AP rifle (T2 rifle is a toss-up...I'd argue it's just as good against most things you're shooting). He's definitely worse during the reactive turn, lacking the X visor and SSL2.

    In short, he's a short to mid-range attack piece. I'm having trouble finding a place for him in lists. In a Haris he might do very well. As I see it, the core link containing 3 Druze, 1 Brawler engineer, and 1 Clipper is just too good to pass up. Will report back after I've had a few games to see if a 36 point mid-range attack piece is the missing link.
     
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  11. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    In reality though, he can get SSL2 easily due to being in a fireteam, and he has a PH 14 Dodge which isn't to be sniffed at. Reactively, he's still solid.

    The Vet Kazak is tougher and faster. Arslan is slower with more deadly firepower (with the notable exception of no DTW, though he does have a LSg and MSV1 so would he even use it if he did? Not that often. Still would be nice but he's already got three 0-8" options!)
     
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  12. Envihon

    Envihon The Sword of Haqqislam, High Commander Envihon

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    Either way, it's not like a Vet Kazak is going to come take his job in DBS :tongueout:. He is definitely a potential killing machine.
     
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  13. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I love Arslan, hes my link team defender while the Marksman Rifle and HMG knocks out threats. If anything gets close, they Eat whatever weapon Arslan decides to use to ruin their day. Hes ferocious....like a lion...perhaps a mythical lion...one that lives in a wardrobe...
     
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  14. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Hmm....in my opinion all druze should got NWI (or veteran L2 :) ) that would make them cool and considering of taking. Becaus druze sectorial is more about brawlers then druze (on tourneys i'd always take as much as possible of brawlers and as less as possible - druze).

    I can take two brawlers instead of arslan. Or brawler and pathfinder, or two pathfinders. On close range i'd rather have armbot with flamer buddy + browler, for longer ranges - again, browlers, clipper or druze sniper\hmg. His diffrent weapons are not so great as he will come with link which already poseses lots of stuff.... And again - i'd rather push with something less order consuming (4-2 druze movement is so-so and we have already nice pushy TO and good hunzakuts infiltrators, ad bashi bazouks)
     
  15. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    The problem with that is you can only have 4 brawlers. The Druze are the beefy delivery system. How many specialists do you really need anyways? Hunzakut, Pathfinder, Brawler Doc, and Gomoz should be plenty.
     
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  16. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Yeah, Brawlers are petty optimized for what they're supposed to do (except fix things). But WIP12 can be rough when trying to hold your position. I really like that I can just throw one in the Druze link as a cheaper filler, MSV2 Sniper, or Heavy Rocket Launcher.

    I'm also glad they're AVA 4, keeping the focus on the Druze.
     
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  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    The WIP thing doesn't bother me too much. When you're tossing a D20, the difference between 60% chance of success and 70% chance of success isn't ultra meaningful, especially if you're okay spending that Command Token to attempt a re-roll. I think the design there for Brawlers is pretty good... Get a nice link filler with some cheap combat profiles, offset by the fairly inflated cost and poor WIP of the Enginer/Doctor. I like the feel it lends to the Sectorial as a whole, especially since both the Doctor and Engineer are pretty valuable profiles for a force that's full of REMs and defensive link members who all want to be picked up when they get shot down.

    For Arslan, I probably would have been happier to see him lose some of his extra rules, to just be a minimally costed Druze with MULTI Rifle. It may not be as inspiring as his current bullet Dodging, No Wound Incap badass, but he'd be a little easier to fit into a list.

    No Wound Incap is a pretty good tool versus those Turn 1 assassination runs though, if you're playing Decap or have a meta where opponents go for LT kills hard. There aren't that many assassination units with Shock, so there's a good chance Arslan can stay on his feet if he's confronted with a simple Burst 2 Fiday, Oniwaban, etc.
     
  18. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that they are so "beefy". Tohaa ectros is "beefy"... Magister knights, asawira, haramaki, wu-mings are less beefy then ectros but still sturdy enough. Myrmidons have some defence (odd). Damn...even odalisque are more beefy then druze, and their costs are amazing. And what druze have? Arm 3 ... Bts 3;( It's like bolts in neoterra. But worse - because you have to take them comparing to neoterra where you can hopefully completely forget about bolts. Druze are for ARO hakicng\ eventually speculative in some very difficult situations \ HMG-Multisniper killing on long distances. Pushing the board with them can end with tragedy...

    There are diffrent druze figures but I can't justify taking more then 3 of them :(
     
  19. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    ARM 3 and BTS 3 is pretty beefy for their points level. With a BS12 base, yea they dont have 2 wounds but they also dont pay the points for two wounds. Druze push slowly and methodically. You don't rush them up the board, just a little bit each turn. With 5 games in, I have been very happy with their performance as a slowly advancing anvil unit. Just last night I had them eat through 2 Task Masters (40" aro Smart missile launcher with MML2), Moderator Multi-Sniper (HMG), Custodier Hacker (Druze Trinity KHD through hunza repeater), Moderator LT, Moderator Spitfire, Moderator Para medic, all the last three with a DMG 14 BS13, B4 Shock Multi-Rifle. The Druze link has answers and is a serious threat. Its a very strong offensive AND defensive link which is a tough balance to get, and if Arslan gets to Multirifle or less range, he becomes a major player. Arslans kill list as of now:

    Diomedes
    Machaon
    2x Zeros
    Prower
    4x Moderators
    Myrmidon Spitfire
    Wu Ming
    Tiger
    3x of the explodey head guys ISS (I keep wanting to say Zhanshi but its not them)

    Arslan has become almost an autoinclude for his skillset and tool kit.
     
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  20. locksmith

    locksmith comlog active

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    LT WIP is basically irrelevant, since Infinity's decision trees all have their weight inverted. What you do with your last order matters much much more than what you do with your first--likewise, losing the LT roll is frequently advantageous because you force your opponent to make a choice with nothing to go on but your declared faction.

    In some missions, losing the LT roll is always good because your opponent may end up with the dreaded Deploy First-Go Second, which takes a truly skilled player to turn into an advantage.
     
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