Let's open a thread about the factions feedback. I was afraid a bit about the "classical races" information we received at the start, but after this video I can say I'm quite happy about the incipit of the factions. Nothing too original maybe, but neither too trivial. Feudum already won my heart, being an old Akkylannie Griffin player, and I can sense they won all the religious fanatism my dead faction had. And the Hegemony shares a lot of similarities with... another CB faction. Let's say I want to be the first to say it: Hegemony was a mistake!
I'm excited to see how the Dwarves aesthetic is represented on the minis. Curious about the Varank - beast/animal dudes? Something else? Will the cosmopolitan City faction have minis from the other races? It'd be neat if a unit of their swordsmen had elf/dwarf/human, all mixed in. How woody/close to nature will the elves be?
There is just so MUCH fantasy out there that there aren't really many things you could do that are truly unique or revolutionary in the genre, and I don't think Warcrow is pushing for that level of innovation in its factions. Which is understandable since when it works (on rare occasions) its wonderful, but when it doesnt work you're left with something silly. You have what I'd consider some very basic fantasy tropes in the factions here, but with a few little twists that might be interesting. The Northern Tribes are the greenskin/barbarian horde (but with a clear internal divide! And a history they seek to reclaim!). Mounthaven are the dwarves (who are historians!) and of course dwarves live underground (in upside-down cities!), Embersig are the Cosmopolitan Fantasy City (but also that city is the Hyperpower!) There's a lot to do with those variations. As presented, Feudom are the religious fanatics, Syennan are wood elves, very standard generic fantasy nations, and I dont feel we GOT a peek at the variations Warcrow is going for with them... but I assume like the others those exist as-yet unrevealed. The 'oh cant reveal that!' faction feels like it will be the fantasy 'alien invader', Warcrow's Combined Army, Demons of the Mist or something along those lines, but impossible to tell. Maybe there's an ancient conspiracy of wizards emerging from behind the scenes, maybe regimented Roman Legions of were-crows or something ^_^. Too early to really judge the factions, I think, for good or ill. At this point I'm hoping for bookish magic-user dwarf scholars who'd never touch axe or anvil, antimagic elves leaving their forests to take action because spellcasters disrupt their delicate tree-city ecology, orcs seeking to reclaim the ruins of their once-world-spanning civilization which fell after the magic-comet on which their spellcraft depended grew too weak, that sort of thing.
I'm more than fine with the somewhat stereotypical take on fantasy races, those stereotypes are popular for a reason. I think this game will live or die, not on the originality of the factions, but on the designs of the minis and the rule set. I think it is safe to say that for a lot of wargamers, the look of the minis is what hooks people into trying out the game, and if the game is good, they'll stay. The story and worldbulding will draw in and keep people too, but I think for most that is secondary to the look of the models and the game rules themselves.
I don’t know, I feel like there’s only one force in Infinity that Combines multiple distinct species into one Army. There were also some hints that the Hegemony isn’t going to have the same “protagonist” standing that PanO does in Infinity fluff.
Obviously the parallels aren't exact, but I always liked Earthdawn so I see some vibe there. So I'm hoping the Fog-Faction will be Horror-ish. Which maybe could have a vibe of Umbra & Shasvaasti, but "more". Feed on fear. I also think it's amusing that they don't trust Bostria with a bow in any of HIS videos in the kitchen.
Personally, considering the rackham aesthetic of the old warcrow range, for the moment I'm imagining a kind of the styles listed below for the factions presented and a mix of classic ranges and renaissance looks. Feudom: aka Confrontation griffins but with more women. Spoiler: Griffins Mounthaven: Aka dwarfs full of armor and a little renaissance look, to show their "knowledge" and industrial side. Spoiler: Dwarf high med/renaissance The Syenann : classic elf sylvan. Spoiler: classic robin hood in tights Northern tribes : I think we will have a classic mix of Vikings, I would love to have orcs like the Huns orcs of rackham. Spoiler: Viking/huns mix Hegemony of Embersig : I'm expecting miniatures that are close to the renaissance period (in true scale). Spoiler: open your children's hearts, imagining this in true scale
i'm totally ok with generic fantasy. I never had the oportunity to play a fantasy game. Yeah, very different, transgresive fantasy could be interesting, but is also risky.
I'm ok with what has been presented. It gets tiresome to see endless, meaningless iterations of "our elves are different" and I'm cheered to see that the tropes are somewhat consistent, yet not cookie cutter. No problems so far!
I don't want to be the party pooper so early on when we do not have enough information on the races/cultures, but I got strange (maybe even Warhammer Fantasy) vibes from this video. I wonder why. It is hard to pinpoint why I am nervous about their direction with Warcrow, especially considering that I am very well aware that they took serious risks with outliners in Infinity aesthetics, such as the Artichokes (I mean, Tohaa), certain elements in CA and Aleph, and maybe the sales were not always that good. I think we have eventually learned to appreciate such vision that was the Artichoke, but maybe too little too late. We had the Year of the Tohaa, after all... Still, I see the other way ahead just as perilous, as a hodgepodge of generic fantasy can be a trap also, especially if/when WHF is returning. Maybe I am just getting older, missing the bolder arts we could see in olden days. Even if the miniatures for Infinity are more crisp nowadays, somehow I miss the evocative stances and uniqueness of the old miniatures that were oozing with character. I guess that is why that old Aswang is my profile picture, which had such a brutal aura around it. Even if the frogmen sculpts were getting old for the Shas, they were truly alien. Even if the v.1. Morats needed update, the v.2. were perfect, so I am baffled with these new Morats that are also a big flop aesthetically for me. Everything is getting samey and somewhat boring. The last time I felt invigorated by the visuals of a fantasy game was because of a card game, namely Summoner Wars first edition (SW second edition is also a flop for me). I will use SW as a comparable template to analyze Warcrow, at least the small bits we know about it. Feudom: it is always hard to make a generic human, knightly faction pop for fantasy, SW used angelic beings for their Vanguards faction to do so, which is also not a rare solution, and clearly overused. CB made such a cool sectorial and visual core with the MO design, so I think even if they only translate it well into Warcrow, I will be still happy. If they find something to sprinkle it up with, it could be a winner. The trick with the Vanguards was that those angelic beings were depicted as really alien, non-human, somewhat frightening (except for that stupid cherubim) entities, and there was a notion of spirit users as well, which made it an interesting mix of religious themes. And also, the Vanguards were written as a bulwark for humanity to survive against such existential threats as the undead hordes of the Fallen Kingdom, so it will be interersting to see if CB pits the Feudom primarily against the Northern Tribes, or maybe even the Hegemony of Embersig, like a mesh of Alliance (in Warcraft) with the Northern Kingdoms (of the Witcher series, making a Scoia'tael-like conflict also possible with the non-human factions of Mounthaven and The Syenann). Mounthaven: so SW had two main types of dwarves: Guild Dwarves, the regular generic ones, and Deep Dwarves (DD), the cool ones. DD as a concept was working because it mixed gem magic and geomancing with cool allies (like deep troll and gem golem). Nothing groundbraking maybe, but they pulled it off with such a dark undertone that made DD a really unique, somewhat xenophobic and strange bunch. Now, as for Mounthaven, the mix of warlike-but-tome-lover and antigravity stuff could very much work for Warcrow dwarves, if they do not go towards the Dwarfs of WHF or dwarves of Warcraft with stupid gyrocopters. If CB is smart, they make Warcrow dwarves unique with some unobtanium mineral thingies that allow these shorties to use Super Jump-like abilites to hop around the field and their enemies. A small TAG-like golem with Super Jump? It would be fun. The main antagonist for them could be the Northern Tribes, and maybe the Feudom. The Syenann: seems like they will be the generic, tree-hugger kind, based on the name, and the costume with the bow. SW fortunately left out the generic type and went imediately towards a dark elf type (Shadow Elves), the pyromaniac kind (Phoenix Elves), and a unique african vibe (Jungle Elves). I know that this kind of "Our Elves Are Different" trope can be also tiring after a while (I am looking at you, WoW), but somewhat SW pulled it off quite nicely. Maybe CB will do it too. I will be happy if they use some of the cool biological concepts from Tohaa and apply them to the Syenann (maybe even strange allied creatures like Chaksa/Kaauri/Reex/SymbioBeasts). The Gorgos could come back as a treant TAG easily, although that could be quite close to a treelord ancient or Drycha Hamadreth of the Sylvaneth (AoS/Warhammer). Probably all other factions could be a danger for them, but a fun twist could make the Northern Tribes less so. Northern tribes: I guess it will be something similar to the Tundra Orcs of SW, who became allies with the Guild Dwarves (because of possible common enemies in the future, such as Phoenix Elves, Cave Goblins, maybe even the Swamp Orcs). Unfortunately Warcraft used up the orcs+minotaurs (Tauren) trope, so possibly CB won't go there, but I could see Varank as beastmen with Warcrows amongst them. SW 2e will have the Skyspear Avians as a new faction, but even back in 1e these kind of bird-people were mentioned (some of them were mercenaries) and they were very close geographically to the north and to the Tundra Orcs, so even then it was a theoretical possiblity for an alliance between them, so I could see something similar as a plausible narrative here for Warcrow. As CB pulled off really nice werewolf kind of stuff for Ariadna in Infinity, they could do something similar for the Northern tribes as well. Hegemony of Embersig: I think our guess about the possibility of some renaisance style is not unfounded. Based on the description I pictured Nilfgaard from the Witcher universe immediately. Maybe because the lady mentioned a Black Legion or something? Nilfgaard is a really cool concept, highly popular as a faction in the Gwent online card game, so it could be a succesful template for CB as well. Maybe even mixing together aspects of Nilfgaard and Novigrad (minus the hegemony of a religion such as the Eternal Fire in the life of the city). It could be either a really strong city-state, merchant republic, with strong punitive force outwards via retinues (such as the Black Legion), using mercenaries otherwise, waging embargo wars, or something with more territories, trade posts around the globe, an empire based on naval capabilities, but still having internal strifes between marchant and crime families, using spies and assassins from the shadows. So it could be a fertile ground for the coolest of faction if handled well, with possibilities to grow at least three sub-factions/sectorials with distinctive features (1. central authorities with agents and veteran soldiers of the retinues; 2. spies and mercenaries of the merchant families; 3. assassins and henchmen of the crime families). SW had such elements as well, with the factions of Mercenaries, Cloaks and Benders. All in all, it seems to me that maybe I still have high hopes for this Warcrow game, after all. As Frostgrave: Ghost Archipelago did not take off that well as the main Frostgrave line did, I think it could be a clever move from CB to make Warcrow compete in the design space of Ghost Archipelago, rather than with stuff like Warhammer. And still, as Ghost Archipelago is more about the pirate vibe in jungles, Warcrow could move in its own pace, growing up from the experience they got from the Infinity universe, making it a smooth transition from space and planets, into islands and coastal powers. The narrative really gave the impression that they know their strength, how they can handle such vast array of missions well in a highly customizable, yet still balanced skirmish game with verticality, so I hope they will do the same in Warcrow as well. It will be fun, not just running for treasure chests, but fighting against the various groups of nimble elf rangers with warbeasts, dwarf commandos combat jumping into the frey with tactical golems, the mages and priests of the feudal lords clad in armor, the warbands of orcs and beastmen with some aerial support (smart birdpoop), and the assassins and henchmen of the Hegemony. Or anything really, I just hope CB will not drop the ball, making it too generic or too cookie-cutter for my taste.
There's lots of competition with fantasy games right now. I just saw Chronopia is making a comeback. And some like me have wanted a comeback of Confrontation. Confrontation had a great story and great figures, ok rules. But not the best management from what I've heard. A list of the war games I actually know off the top of my head. AoS Warcry LoTR Frostgrave Relic Blade One Page Rules Conquest Malifaux I can't remember the Game of Thrones game name. There's a few more I can't remember the names of. The large scale games all have a Race based faction. The skirmish ones tend to have more freedom. Malifaux seems to have ones based on Ideologies but I don't know well enough. What I'm saying is, that they need to differentiate themselves from others if they are going to stick out from the rest. A few can do ok with crud rules but great figures. I'm not so sure about meh figures but great rules. The background is somewhere in the middle but can be a big factor.
Games like Frostgrave and OPR actually increase the market for Warcrow minis due to their miniature agnostic nature, much like my Infinity minis pulling triple duty as 5 Parsecs and potentially Stargrave minis.
True, true, true. And sadly the last one is also true ;) A Song Of Ice And Fire - by CMON. Rather easy name for the fans of the books, rather hard for the rest ;) Nice set of inspiration and photos, especially Behemoth Orcs from Confrontation. But you've really picked up the worst wood elves on the market, and I'm saying this as a long time LotR player ;) :D PozdRawiam / Greetings
Oh I can't believe I forgot Warma/Hordes. I think they had a interesting story, not bad figures, but I've never heard good things about the rules. But I always felt the idea of Magic fueled mecha was a great idea.
I would like to see the elves with a more feral nature, elves, zentaurs, satyrs, wild beasts. Something primal. Maybe even something sinister... Like the winter court in the dresden files. Wild fearies and so on.
I played 1st and 2nd edition WM/H and had a lot of fun, but didn’t have enough headspace to keep on top of both it and Infinity, so I dropped the game. I never played 3rd, but it seems like that’s where things really went off the rails.
From the art shown of the Feudom temples they appear to be moon worshipers, so I am thinking we may see more something along the likes of H3XXa's alt-skin in the design for these.
