Hey everyone, after buying into Spiral Corps recently after a long time away from Infinity I was very annoyed by CB's recent patch to SpiCo that took the Armed Prospector away (for unclear reasons). I've been reading a lot of your thoughts on this as well as many other annoyances, and have done some thinking of my own about the various issues SpiCo (arguably) seems to be facing in terms of fun, viability and especially faction identity. A recurring concern is that players currently have few reasons to play Spiral Corps over Tohaa outside from the OOP issue, for example. I put in some effort to articulate what I think could be interesting changes to the faction to improve it on a wide range of fronts. To do this, I describe what I think SpiCo's identity should revolve around, and provide a long list of ideas on changes that could be made to push it in those directions. I'd love to hear your opinions about the design direction for SpiCo, as well as concrete ideas you'd like to see tried. As will be obvious, I've ported some of the ideas I've read on these forums and elsewhere over to my own thoughts; I hope that's alright by everyone. Enjoy! Faction Identity Mixed Species Forces: To me, a defining feature of Spiral Corps is its eclectic mixture of species. Tohaa agents mixed in with unwitting human mercenaries alongside a smattering of Exalted(ish) auxiliaries defines the visual language of Spiral Corps to me. Unlike a Tohaa force, Spiral Corps should generally include at least a few humans (or Tohaa pretending to be humans) and supporting species and/or constructs. Indirect & Reactive Combat: SpiCo is sneaky. Rather than proactively engaging, it likes to set up ambushes and funneling opponents into 'unfair' encounters with mines and various disruptive tools. Only after the opponent has taken the bait or tied themselves into knots to avoid it will the typical SpiCo player move in to pick their formation apart and starve their heavy hitters of effective activations. Layers of Deception: Anyone facing a SpiCo force should be wondering about 'what is going on' at any point in time; unsure of which models are what they seem to be, any models in reserve or in Hidden Deployment. Projecting a wide range of possible threats should keep the opponent guessing, so it's important that the clever SpiCo player can effectively obscure the identities of their picks when building a force. Esoteric Equipment: We have a lot of unusual equipment that many players will not be used to dealing with; a lot of tools that can hurt them in unexpected ways through unexpected vectors. It's difficult to remember which weapons to look out for when there are so many on the board (and perhaps hidden as well). Weird Fireteams: And finally, SpiCo is a Fireteam faction, but unlike the rather straightforward Tohaa faction, its unusual structure should also translate into unusual fireteams. Humans and Tohaa mixed in together and (seemingly) strange pairings open up new ways to play models that would otherwise be fairly straightforward or static. With those ideas outlined, I've collected quite a number of possible tweaks and revisions that might help Spiral Corps play in ways I've outlined, or at least make the faction more distinct, interesting and fun to play. Dials to Turn? Availability Changes Armed Prospector: Bring it back, with AVA 1! The Digger's problem is that it's just too good for its cost right now, but with a simple cost increase it'll fit into SpiCo just fine. It seems it's currently removed due to its synergy with SymbioBombs&Mates and I have an idea to deal with that as well (see Rule Changes below). Draal Saboteur: There are two Draal in the Army Pack, why not just give it AVA 2? Is a Taagma really going to pose as one, and pretend to forego Forward Deployment? This is more of a niggle than anything else, I added it for completion's sake. Fraacta Drop Troop: If anyone's going to steal back a CA adaptation of Tohaa tech, it's SpiCo! It's a cool and useful mini and profile, gives us another way to obscure the true composition of our forces and it's a nice way of getting Onyx players into SpiCo and vice versa! AVA 1 seems right to me. Kaeltar Specialist: Honestly, does this need to be AVA 1? With Tohaa OOP, it sucks to buy a Kaeltar box only for it to be half-useless. If they're too strong (doesn't seem so to me), maybe up their cost a little bit instead? I know most people proxy these for this reason, but that kind of sucks imo; just let us field both instead. Kiel-Saan Killer: Like the Draal, why is this AVA 3? The Taagma can't Holomask as one, and you're not especially likely to field even one of these. AVA 2 seems just right to me. Libertos Freedom Fighter: Spiral Corps operates out of Varuna, it fields Helot Militia and you're telling me they wouldn't employ Libertos rebels for missions that require maximum deniability? The Libertos is beautiful, and as a Forward Deployment Camouflage unit it's excellent for obscuring our movements at little cost. Either AVA 1 or 2 works for me here. Maakrep Tracker: Like the Fraacta, an AVA 1 for the Maakrep would be very cool. It doesn't fill as obvious a niche, but I don't expect it to cause trouble if it can't be in Fireteams. I'm more hesitant about this suggestion because of the HMG profile; what do you think? PanOceania REM: I don't need SpiCo to be a great hacking faction, but surely we can have a little bit, as a treat? Just a few basic PanO (again, we're on Varuna) Repeater drones for a Wardriver to play around with? A few AVA 1's would be wonderful, and fitting for a faction that likes its indirect combat. Cost Changes Chaksa Longarms: Longarms seem just a hair from playable, maybe cost them down a tiny bit? A viable Rasail & Longarm build would be fun to see both here and in Tohaa! Jaan Staar/Kiiutan Imposter: Afaik just about everyone thinks Jaan is just better than the basic Imposter; to me that suggests Jaan is too cheap, or the other Kiiutan too expensive. "Le Muet": Isn't Armand like a triple-agent seemingly working for the Triumvirate? Would be cool if they were just a bit more affordable to see play. Wardriver: It'd be nice if your designated 'true' hacker didn't feel like a chore to field; and a new print run would be nice as well! Profile Changes Anaconda Squad: Such a cool mini, but only STR 2? Maybe make it like ARM 6 and STR 3? That seems to be in line with other TAGs in its class as far as I can see? Igao Assassin: Igao are already pretty decent afaik, but seem a little lost. Would it be bad to give them Hidden Deployment like the Clipsos? It can already pose as a Camo Beasthunter now, but I'm not sure that's enough. Kriigel Agent: Here comes a big one. What if the Agent got six profiles: SMG, GL and SGL, either with Lieuteant or as NCO and costing 0.5SWC? This is a pretty big change, and might be especially unbalanced; let me know! It's a change I'm especially interested in because of the following idea: Reex Escort: Turn these into Peripheral (Control) underneath the Kriigel profile, lower their cost and give them all Neurocinetics. I'm convinced these were originally intended to be Peripherals because the Pack includes three of them, but their special fireteam only allows for two of them. As a Control unit, the Reex finally gain a clear and relevant purpose as a mobile reactive corner guard, while leaving the Kriigel more independent. The Reex also no longer contribute Orders in exchange for a great volume of troops on the field. Monstrucker: With its Drop Bears the Monstrucker can actually be a decent member of a Brawler or Anaconda Fireteam, if only it had an FTO (Regular) option? Taagma Schemer: The Schemer's Hacker profile is so sad, but maybe less so if it also had Spotlight? It might help you actually consider taking an Auxiliar HRL some time? Rule Changes SymbioBomb&Mate: The recurring problem with the Kaeltar's toys is that CB has to be careful about which models they can add to SpiCo & Tohaa; maybe it's time to just get rid of that problem entirely? My suggestion would be to give specific models a specific rule called something like "Pheroware Harness", and change the SymbioB&M rules so that they can only be assigned to models with a Pheroware Harness. It'd be a slightly clunky rule but solve a lót of issues in one go; you can even have non-Symbiont Armor wearers (like the Kriigel, or Kaeltar themselves) make use of them! Tri-Core: I'm pretty sad Tri-Core has been so diminished as of late. Would it be bad if it applies the 5-man Composition Bonus to the Fireteam, but only if all of its members are from the same unit? This idea ties into my Revised Fireteam section, so read on there. Revised Fireteams Cohort: The classic Brawler team, but updated. Brawler (Cohort) 1-4, Digger (Cohort), Monstrucker FTO (Cohort), Wardriver, Beasthunter FTO and Neema Saatar 0-1. Neema is being used as a kind of mascot representation of the new 'partnership' between the Tohaa and humanity, so she can be included as member of the Brawler Core (but not contribute to its Composition Bonuses). Faking a Neema with a Taagma could be supremely silly, and just having more ways to build this Core seems interesting to me. The Beasthunter would be Irregular and just tag along as a purely reactive member until the team falls. Anaconda: This stays mostly the same, but I'd add the Monstrucker FTO 0-1 as a tag-along Engineer option and corner guard. Specialist: A lot of changes to the 'traditional' Tohaa Triads. In my mind, these should be built to enable the Tri-Core re-revision. Kosuil (Bonded), Kaeltar (Bonded), Kriigel (Bonded) and Kumotail (Bonded) are at 0-2 (and work with Tri-Core, see Wildcards below), and Neema, Wardriver (yes, a non-Tohaa specialist!) and Draal at 0-1. The idea is that these are specialists working closely together rather than general combatants. In this build, Neema could be part of a Tri-Core, but not get the Composition Bonuses. Also the Draal is re-imagined as someone who will reconstitute broken Triads during a match rather than start as team member; this applies to the Kiel-Saan Haris below as well. Kiel-Saan: Neema seems slightly better than the Kiel-Saan, so I think its Haris merits a little bump. It has Kiel-Saan 1-2, Draal 0-1 and Kaauri 0-2 (so nót just the FTO anymore!). Chaksa: The Chaksa Fireteam remains exactly as before. Wildcards: Finally, Aelis is still a Wildcard, the Taagma becomes Taagma (Bonded, Cohort) 0-3 and the Kaauri FTO is added here at 0-1! Now any one Fireteam can have a little scanner-bot with them to suss out the Shasvastii menace and do a little healing besides. Pretty spicy I think, but does that idea work? And that just about covers what I've cooked up. I'm just some guy; I could be completely off base with most of the things I've said here but I'm just the type of person to share ramblings like these. I hope you enjoyed the read, and I hope to read about your own ideas as well. Have a good one.
Sadly it's normal for CB to come out with weird numbers of figs compared to rules. They tend to make last minute changes while things are already in production. Or the make profiles and don't make a figure for it for years. The AVA almost never matches what they come out with. For example, Ye Mao are able to Haris for years and they came out with a limited ed. one in an ITS box, one in a big set, and one blister. Why not just doing a 3-man box in the first place? I'm not sure I'm on board with Fraacta or Makrep. I'd like to see more come over from the regular Tohaa. Taquel, and a revised Gao-Tarsos for example. I agree on Liberto. However he might not be allowed just because they CAN take Helot. As mentioned in another thread, I think Kaauri and Reex would be fine if they just allow them to create their own fire teams or join others. They are too limited right now.
The only thing I wish for Anaconda is escape system buff. Currently, escape system is total garbage. It is ridiculous this 'escape system' cannot prevent incoming damage to pilot at all. Escape system should prevent leftover damage to pilot. This is what I want : If full STR Anaconda dealt 4 damage, 2 damage will destroy Anaconda TAG and 2 damage being prevented by escape system. Then Anaconda pilot safely escape with smoke template.
plus as before in old times... roll a dice to check where the pilot will land in smoke. suddenly this rule will have a meaning.
Spiral Corps base of operations is located in Varuna, they specifically do not employ Libertos because Kamau would be on their doors yesterday and they would not be there asking questions.
BTW SC has only 1 FO(excluding 'seasonal' Traktor Mul) in whole army list. SC don't have GML(guided rocket instead) but for classified mission purpose, I definitely want more FO options. SC don't even have any good(or efficient) hacker for missions. - Keesan KHD can't target something and too expensive for a single wound model. - Wardrivers costs too many orders to perform mission stuff(remember no repeater in this faction. excluding 'seasonal' Traktor Mul) - Taagma Zero Pain hacker(which costs 0.5 SWC) is the exact profile I don't wanna invest my SWC.(and can't even spot something) - Brawler hacker is the only viable option for SC. But after a removal of Digger bringing brawler hacker to midfield is bit tougher now. But still. Brawler is our best shot. So conclusion : Give SC some more FO options. Or Taagma HD.
So basically Spiral needs a total rework. I bought all SC then started to collect Tohaa as a backup. Then as i started collecting and making lists and finally playing, i realized there is zero reason to play SC over Tohaa. I actually really like adding the Fraacta and Maakrep. If we want more humans, i think Kaplan would be a nice addition as well. And....hear me out, Emily Handelman and Uhua. Good FO and Hacker for a faction that really needs them. Plus they are awesome models that deserve more use.
I agree 100%. Infinity is structured in armies and sectorial. Each brings its own advantages and disadvantages (more profile vs Fireteams). To increase the gameplay possibilities each sectorial is focused on different mechanics. The NA2 sectorial, in my mind, are an addition to this concept, mixing units from different nations and giving them specific profiles (mercenaries). For Spiral Corp I don't understand what CB had in mind! It should be a mixed mercenary unit that conduce cover operations? Great on the paper, but almost all our infiltration profile are shared with Tohaa (no uniqueness). Moreover we lack good weapons and hacking. I understand the concept of a small mercenary unit specialized in deceiving and infiltration so no HMG or other big weapons, but at least give us more K1 or Viral options like Tohaa. What are the strenghts of SC? We don't excell in infiltration, not in exotic weapons, not in hacking and we don't have unique leaders/characters (that help IMO to sell and have something unique). This bring to the usual question WHY I HAVE TO PLAY SPIRAL (and not tohaa for example)?
I think people underestimate Spiral at their own peril - even without Diggers they are still a dangerous enemy, with an answer to most questions in the game. However, once you remove the naff options, the reasons to play them over Tohaa boil down to taagma viral sniper in brawler pure core and 2-3 Helots. Balanced against *just the Taquel alone*, that's a poor list of good reasons. I'd happily trade them both out for Taquels. So if CB really expect people with Tohaa collections to bother playing SC, let alone for the faction to have a bt more identity, they need to make the sectorial more interesting. If you want my number-one pick for who I'd like to see drafted into SC, it would be SpecOp Saito Togan. I'd love to see Spiral get not just he dregs of the mercs, but one or two of their top-shelf characters. At the moment mercs are horrifically under-represented in this merc faction. Tohaa can take Libertos, Aida, Kendrat, MBHs, Trips, Beasthunters, and Krakots. That's a better list than SC. What the hell?
I completely agree. SC is not terrible to play or impossible to play. It is just hard to justify playing SCo ver Tohaa. Except for OOP miniatures, I can't really see SC's advantage over Tohaa. And definitely want more mercs! Love your comparison on merc pool!
I would add the Kriigel Smoke Launcher, Kiiutan E/M Mines, and cheap Kriigel/Reex/Taagma Sniper triad to the list of reasons to play Spiral, but I don’t think these make a ton of difference to the “why not just play Tohaa” equation. The faction certainly functions just fine, but it’s a bit stale in terms of builds that actually perform on tabletop and has lost a lot of its bag of tricks since the Fireteam Update.
Maybe I'm overestimating SC's abilities to hide their involvement, but that would kind of be part of the point for me. Employing Libertos but pretending they're Helots so you can send them on missions that Helots would inform PanO about seems like a decent conceit to me. Yes please! My reason for giving the Taagma Hacker Spotlight is in part so it would synergize with the Guided HRL (not HML, apologies). What's more SC than tagging an enemy threat and blowing them up from behind a wall? I adore Kaplans, but I'm just happy with a selection spread that helps us complicate our opponent's guesses about what we're fielding. I don't know about Uhahu and Handelman specifically, but I'd be very happy with a good range of options; especially compared to Tohaa xD. Love that you added the consideration of just being able to play cool mini's; very important to me as well. I actually kind of like that SC kind of gets the 'generic' mercenaries, which are livened up by the presence of exotic Tohaa operatives. Still, I can't really argue with some of these; they're similarly 'generic' in the sense that so many factions can just add them to their rosters with barely any justification beyond "they're mercenaries so you can take them if you want".
If they were not based in Varuna and not pretend to be a legal mercenary company, it would make sense, but they are and their entire front is been a legal mercenary company, fielding Libertos is a really high risk for them.
This is an excellent idea. They're not around much, and really could help flesh out the faction. Fluff justifications wouldn't be much of a stretch. Fractaa in a Tohaa sectorial though is still a terrible idea. It's like EI troops appearing in OSS. Increasing merc availability and options, and making Tri-Core more appealing are really all SC need. Adding a second Kaeltar specialist would be both un-thematic and increase Tohaa's reliance on that ultimate crutch (seriously, most broken thing int he game during N3, still way too good for the points in N4). And Kaplans... meh, they're in so many other sectorials anyways. Well, that and restricting the merc options in vanilla Tohaa to increase the contrast between the forces. Pull the Krakots out of vanilla, but increase to AVA3 in Spiral and make them linkable. And WTF is Aida doing in there?!? A Shas agent in Spiral makes NO sense at all.
Actually... I had an idea some time ago for an NA2 built around Tohaa and Fractaa defectors from their respective factions, disillusioned about both Trinomial and EI and banding together. Same goes for OSS/Aleph/CA, imagine a sectorial of rogue survivors of the Paradiso fights, who either can't or won't go back to Aleph, but instead strive to protect Human Sphere on their own terms, scavenging and repurposing damaged Aleph and CA equipment, and led by a certain Nobody. But that's for another thread.
That does seem like an interesting idea @Stiopa . But as you point out that deserves its own thing, and does not at all fit the Spiral fluff. [I’ve thought similar things about Exrah: rogue members of the Concordat who escaped the purge would make excellent additions to a ragtag alien-grabbag neutral faction, alongside stuff like Rebel Tohaa, Krakots, etc.]
I've wanted merc Exrah for years. Getting rid of all of the Exrah is one of my big disappointments of CB.
Rogue Exrah would be cool. In general there's a lot fun to be had with alien races (pun intended, calm down, Riker). Imagine humans encountering another Shasvastii ship, but one that never came into contact with EI before...
Given what we were told about Shasvasti changing themselves to fit the circumstances, I'd believe these wouldn't resemble the CA Shasvasti. Thus demanding new models. Shasvasti disillusioned with the Combined Army, on the other hand - or simply Shasvasti leadership deciding they don't want to put all their seed-embryos in one basket so to say and supporting Humanity against EI (just in case EI is not going to succeed), as well as supporting EI, is another kettle of fish. These Shasvasti wouldn't even have to know they are a backup option for their species (vide Armand le Muet's case - his Cube, and therefore memoies, are pretty heavily edited as to who he really is and whom does he really serve). Yeah, I've been supporting the idea of rogue Exrach mercenaries for a long time, too.
my thoughts on Fraacta and Maakrep in Spiral Corps. Tohaa and Sygmaa are from the same culture. I'm assuming the Maakrep and Fraacta developed after the CA took over. I'm also assuming that the tech for these two units already existed so either SC developed similar units independently or they defectors that took their equipment with them to join their Tohaa brothers in the fight against the CA. Also my reasoning is as always, they are cool models and i want to use them more.
