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Everything outside the DZ

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Ok so I have an urge to try @Urobros 's suggestion of deploying everything outside the DZ. I made a list with literally everything deploying in the midfield, but I felt it lacked a guided missile bot. So I came up with this compromise which I'm thinking of running in an upcoming game of Supremacy:

    Suprema-what?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    YARA HADDAD (Strategic Deployment) AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    SHAYTANIYAH REMOTE Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    3 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    The idea is to deploy 84 points in one of the far zones and 200 points in my own zones, and just make the opponent come to me. Then whenever he puts anything in the midfield, try to murder enough of it to maintain scoring in three zones.

    Am I crazy? It feels like very little offense. I think it'll be a weird game, but maybe fun and different?
     
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  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Erm.. and I guess I should have a lieutenant, so let's make it Yara.
     
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  3. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    :) I hope the list works fine!! :D I never would had tought about put a "drone guided ML" in this kind of list, but I believe it could do a really good job. If your enemy ignores the fidays (in a mission like this is hard to do that) then you could do a lot of harm later, but if he want to catch the fiday (three of them in the same turn is truly complicated to deal with) then you can "wait" try to "target" in ARO, and later do rain fire from the skyes... Maybe you could have some issues with armies which has too capacity of deep deployment... but while they will be killing your drone the rest of your army wil be "safe" :)

    You are placing a list which is a "koctail" of "bad dessions" for the other players. I will have problems trying to struggle with it :)

    I will be waiting for the report :)
     
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  4. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    It looks super fun! The only small suggestion would be to convert one of the Farzan mine layers to an FO and then to give the cheap Fiday a boarding Shotgun. That might provide some additional flexibility and allow another way to put people in targeted.

    There was a great Tournament Report in N3 about using nothing higher than Burst 3 and doing very well: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...t-power-or-how-to-win-without-big-guns.27154/

    I see no reason why you can't replicate the success in N4.
     
  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Well, it was an interesting game! In the end, I did swap a Farzan into the FO version, but used the point to give mines to the group 1 Fiday. It worked well because on turn 1 he just spend the two group 1 orders to place a mine and re-impersonate, and the mine did good work all game.

    The list pretty much performed as intended. I held off the opposition long enough to keep three zones for the first two turns, despite having first turn. Then got shredded on turn 3, but by then it was too late as I'd already scored four zone points and two consoles (and the consoles can't be taken away in Supremacy) for a 6-5 win.

    As planned, I was able to ignore his MSV2 sniper entirely, simply because I didn't want to advance, I just wanted to hold the ground I already had.

    What really stood out was that the list is so defensive that I had nothing to spend my orders on. I lost the Barid hacker on the first order of the game (to Jaan Staar - an expected outcome when forward deploying the whole fireteam, in retrospect). My opponent was also running a camo-heavy list, and I didn't want to send the Fidays hunting in his DZ because they were points in the midfield, and that left me with nothing active to do. Ended up running Yara up the board solo, where she went into suppression and did excellent work holding a zone, but my active turns still felt kind of meh.

    I think I might turn the Barid KHD into a second hacker so that I can afford to lose one of them, and maybe add a sensor bot for rooting camo out of the midfield.
     
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  6. Cadwallon

    Cadwallon Well-Known Member

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    And a second hacker brings spotlight to Mark enemy miniatures for missile remote. Not sure if you did It, but in active can use barid linked yo launch pitcher, and then without los, try to Mark enemies.

    Cheers
     
  7. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Tried it again, with this:

    Supremacy
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    YARA HADDAD (Lieutenant, Strategic Deployment) AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    SHAYTANIYAH REMOTE Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Also against Tohaa, and again lost a Barid to Jaan's shotgun, so I was quite happy to have brought two of them. The remaining one did good Spotlight work all game.

    I made the mistake of fighting the opposing sniper this time - spent a lot of orders, eventually lost the fight, but then was able to operate around the sniper without any trouble. The list really seems to lean heavily on not advancing, and ignoring whatever the opponent brought to stop me from advancing. Just keep three Fidays in a far quadrant and a few points in each of the close quadrants, and kill anything that moves up.

    What's interesting, though, is that I didn't find that the Core's ability to deploy in a scoring zone was actually a benefit. In both games, I ended up spending turn 1 orders on the Core anyway, so if it had started in my DZ it could have moved into a zone without any extra order cost. Deploying it forward mostly just made it vulnerable. And it seems to be kind of overkill to try to put that many points in your near zones anyway. Just put a few points in those zones and keep your opponent out of them. Concentrate on keeping lots of points in a far zone since those are the challenging ones.

    I think I'll probably try something like this next time I play Supremacy:

    Supremacy untested
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    SHAYTANIYAH REMOTE Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    So, down to only 8/15 units deploying outside the DZ, sorry @Urobros :-)
     
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  8. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the late answer, I was travelling a lot this days and had practically no Internet. I think 8/15 should do the work. I'm really glad the "approach" did reasonable well for you. I'm really happy with hassasin this N4, the rival can play against you and win, of course, but you can do use of pretty much whatever list you want to play. I should try to find "bad" lists right now when playing hassasin in order to find a bad one. Even the "extra cheap" approach can be something serious to face.

    What about the last lists? Did it well?
     
  9. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    I ran a version of it a couple of days ago in Quadrant Control. I didn't keep the exact list, but basically it was the most recent one above, but removed the Farzan FO and downgraded the Rafiq in order to fit in a Nadhir.

    Opponent was vanilla Nomads. He was a little out of practice so it wasn't the best test, but so far the paradigm is working very well for score-every-round zone control missions.

    Turn one, an Intruder HMG moves into the midfield and gets a good angle on my fireteam, killing one of the Barids (reinforcing my decision to take two of the hackers for redundancy!) He then goes after the Asawira but doesn't get through its armor, retreats to a safe spot behind a wall, and recamos.

    Haha, "safe spot." The Rafiq moves up and sensors the Intruder through the wall, then the remaining Barid spotlights it through the Rafiq's repeater. A guided missile takes out the Intruder and a nearby Morlock. The Asawira saunters slightly forward to gun down a Moran, but I don't otherwise advance, and still score 3 zones thanks to all the Fidays.

    Turn two, Lunokhod makes an attack run but I trade it for my Nadhir. A Hellcat drops in and takes out the remaining Barid and the two Ghulams, but it's too little too late. My opponent concedes at that point since I could pass my second turn and still score three zones again, which is enough to secure the win in Quadrant Control no matter what happens on turn 3.

    Really liking the paradigm (for the two missions in ITS that score zones every turn.) The Rafiq/Barid/Shaytanayah combo is great for removing skirmishers. I think I would go back to the Red Fury Rafiq - it's a pretty poor gunfighter, but still nice to have in a list with only one other shooty piece. I'll probably try this next time:

    Supremacy to try
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    GHULAM (Number 2) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)

    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    KAMEEL (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    NADHIR (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, Flammenspeer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    SHAYTANIYAH REMOTE Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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