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Event lists

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Fyeya, May 16, 2018.

  1. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    So at the moment I'm struggling over lists for an upcoming event, and I'm torn between YJ and JSA. I have less experience with JSA, but not a ton with YJ in the first place, so I probably won't do astounding either way.

    That said, I was wondering if people had thoughts on if it's really important to get a lot of faction practice in advance, or if it is better to go with the style you like and lists you've put thought into... which is to say, I'm looking at the event, which is running Supremacy, Transmission Matrix, and Supplies, and struggling to make a good YJ list with the minis I own, which has me leaning toward JSA, which I currently prefer on aesthetic and narrative grounds. (YJ minis are gorgeous, but JSA are too, and JSA appeal more as an underdog faction)

    Perhaps my primary hangup for YJ is that Transmission Matrix will be brutal for me - I own mostly HI, so it's really not plausible to run an even half decent list without them.

    With that in mind, I guess the question is twofold:

    A: How much does faction loyalty play into competitive ability (Is it more about general player knowledge, or tons of specific list practice in your experience)

    and B:

    Any suggestions for JSA or YJ on those missions. Obviously this sort of belongs on the YJ forum, but it's also a JSA question and I guess I'm trying to get persuaded one way or another because I'm an indecisive git.
     
  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    In my experience, the best players can win with pretty much any army. Liking what you're playing is good, and having in-and-out knowledge of your army is great, but knowing that for several factions is better. Knowing your self is important though, so having gone through the brain games of how to build lists is useful.

    So faction loyalty maybe only a little? But faction experience, a whole lot.
     
  3. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    In my experience probably a 25/75 split respectively. Although I would call it "faction" practice and not "list".
     
  4. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    Hrmm.

    The issue I have is that I'm not hugely experienced with either, I've probably put more theory-craft than table time into both. At that point do I just accept that I'll do poorly and go for aesthetics? I've played Dropzone competitively, but I'm still learning what the factions I don't play do - which makes it hard to know which of the two factions I have a little experience with is a better pick - JSA seems a decent option for my playstyle (I tend to be about aggressive and timing based plays) while YJ has the ability to go into gunfights that my PHR had - I guess I'm just not sure if there are any strong factors I should take into account that aren't immediately visible, such as mission selection etc.
     
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Write some lists to accomplish the various missions, with a mental plan of what model(s) you'd use to hit what objectives. Don't think about how the models look, or even if you own them.

    Pick the units that you need to win. IIRC, supplies needs a fast specialist or two.
     
  6. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    Yeah, I've done that with both.

    My main concern with YJ is that Transmission matrix has almost universal repeater coverage, so my HI will be hacking fodder every time I give them an order - and the lists I have for them are 10 orders. :/

    With JSA I feel like I have slightly more wiggle room, and because JSA doesn't have AD or Holo, I only have TO troops... and given in YJ I consistently mishandle all 3, having only 1 to screw up with would potentially work in my favor. I seem to do best in YJ when I deploy bulldozers like a Hac Tao or Hsien and just push them through whatever is causing me problems, and I feel like JSA lets me do that with a Daiyokai or a core link team with Domaru Spitfire or Keisotsu ML.

    So in that regard, JSA, by restricting my 'fancy' units to specialist ninjas and oniwaban, sort of protects me from myself. That's a big part of why I'm leaning JSA, as I think I can get the tools for the missions.

    Should I post lists for critique or is that bad form/people spy on lists before events?
     
  7. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    The nice thing about Trans Matrix is that it's a two-way street... Some players will just bypass participating in the Hacking game, because they don't want their Assault, HD or HD+ guys punished by enemy KHDs. Similarly, if you go with marker-state Heavy Infantry like the Hac Tao or Dao Fei, you get a bit more control and some nice defensive tools to help your Heavy Infantry survive that mission.

    I think a lot boils down to your meta, and whether you expect heavy infowar or not. If you have a ton of Nomad players with obligatory Securitate Lieutenants, you probably want to avoid those HI. By contrast, if you have a lot of Ariadna/Steel Phalanx, you can probably take your chances.

    On the broader topic of picking a mission... I think comfort with the faction and fluency of play count for a lot. I think if you're excited about the faction, and you feel you know them well, these are more valuable assets than a critically optimized list. An optimized list is certainly important, and having both a good list and a lot of comfort with the faction is really the ideal combination, but I'm definitely happier taking a less-optimized faction just because I enjoy playing them and I like how they function the table. That's pretty much my main reason for playing PanO or Yu Jing at all, and not just taking Vanilla Ariadna to every single ITS out there.

    Looking at that mission lineup analytically, both Vanilla Yu Jing and JSA can be winners there. For Transmission Matrix, I think a Vanilla list built around Guilang, Hac Tao/Dao Fei and Shaolin will let you contest the middle and stay defensive, and a tiger soldier or two would let you attack the enemy "home base" and potentially sneak one of their own antennae away from them. JSA can do something similar with a Saito/Oniwaban heavy approach (I'd avoid a JSA heavy infantry list with JSA... Unlike Yu Jing, JSA has no marker state HI, and that low BTS on all their HI means any amount of infowar could cost you unless you bring KHDs to help.)

    Hope that helps.
     
  8. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    So I'm comparing something roughly like the following for transmission matrix -


    [​IMG] TM
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Lieutenant (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 15)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] TIGER SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] KǍNRÈN Forward Observer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] HAC TAO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 67)
    [​IMG] DÀOFĚI Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 55)

    3 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] TM
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] KUROSHI RIDER Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 17)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] ONIWABAN Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] PANGGULING (Total Reaction, Repeater) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #8 Fyeya, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  9. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I like the JSA list more but I would swap the panguling for Yojimbo.
     
  10. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    I'm thinking I may just go in on JSA, and let my YJ wait for the IA release to make their glorious comeback. I'm just into the JSA aesthetic atm.

    I don't have 2 biker models though, so not sure how I'll proxy a yojimbo if I add him in.
     
  11. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    With that in mind, is the suggestion to operate with absolutely no HI at all for TM? I normally run a Domaru in the core team if I don't have a Daiyokai, so I guess I was curious - is it worth running one if I've got a KHD to blow up enemy AHD, or is it just not worth the risk?
     
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