Hello fellow gamers, So since TAK released im playing a lot of games with the Russians and had a lot questions about some rules. It happened to be that an enemy Yuan Yuan (x) tried to fry three of my Antipodes (o) who were still in camouflage on the other side of a fence. The Yuan Yuan declares his first order "move", my ARO is engage only the center Antipode succeeds his engage roll. My opponent said he could get all three of the antipodes in one shot, but I don't think that is correct. Since the blast template is only big enough to fit two at most and must always include the center one which evaded the attack with the engage ARO. We had a discussion about trajectory and all movement happening at the same time, but "engage" states that there is route to be taken. So when does the Yuan Yuan needs to show how to use his template? Is there any point or way where he can align his shot to get all the Antipodes in the template? Thanks in advance! Nick Situation prior to F2F: X <- Yuan Yuan ---------- <- Fence O O O <- Three camomarkers Situation after F2F: O <- Antipode who succeeded at engage X <- Yuan Yuan --------- <- Fence O O <- Antipodes who failed there engage
As the active trooper, the Yuan Yuan can place the template however they want to. If it covers all three Antipodes then all three will be affected. Note that the Engage Roll happens during step 7 of the Order Expenditure Sequence, with the Engage move happening in step 8 as the result of a successful Roll. You don't get to move the Antipode partway through the Order!
Sequence is : Yuan declare move Antipodes declare ARO engage and all 3 are revealed. Those with LoF (and close enough) can engage, other are idle Yuan declare BS attack with his chain rifle. He must then place the template (and so show who is hitted). => At his largest, the big teardrop template is around 10cm large so it should be able to hit all 3 lined antipode if there is not too much space between them (if even a square mm of your base is covered by the template, you are hit). Engage trajectory does not matter because any trooper that move will have passed his engage roll and avoided all attacks PS : from a tactical POW, you should not have ARO. If your opponent wanted that much to hit you, you should have let him try (and fail) his discover roll then try an intuitive attack => 1 more order wasted that way
1. Your Antipode that's Engaging has no trajectory 2. Template is placed immediately on declaration 3. Rolls are all made at the same time towards end of order, not prior to the Yuan Yuan declaring second short skill 4. Any Antipode outside of 2"+Kinematika will not be dodging From your description, the Yuan Yuan can only nail two Antipodes, but any of them are eligible for the attack, not just the main one!
Okay clear! So he moves, I declare engage, He declares 2nd skill shoot, lays down his template which can in casu only hit two targets which are still aligned behind the fence. Then I roll for engage to find out only one succeeds at his roll, roll a armour save for the other one who fails. Then he can place my successful antipode at his base?
Assuming the antipodes were spread out far enough that the template couldn't hit three of them, yes. Don't forget that the Yuan Yuan can 'fire' the Chain Rifle from any point during their movement. Also, as @Arkhos94 said, from a tactical point of view you would probably have been better off not reacting, as the Yuan Yuan wouldn't have been able to attack the Camouflaged Antipodes in that Order.
And then we introduce mines :) Guess what happens if the engage/dodge takes you through a mines trigger area
Just out curiosity can engage stop a moving target in it's trajectory? So if he declares a move of 4 inch can I make him stop at 2 inch given that I have LOF. If so does that prevent him from finishing his move if I succeed at the roll?
Let's me try I'm fairly sure about these: If you dodge while into the trigger area of a mine, it set off of course. You will have to pass the PH-3 roll to avoid it. As Engage is more like a teleport than a move if the engage is succesful the mine won't trigger, even if you ARO inside/throught its trigger area. If you fail the Engage roll inside the trigger area you eat mine. If you go throught its trigger area but fail the engage roll then it doesn't set off because you never moved. But the strange case is if you dodge an attack (PH) and then move into a mine (PH-3). Let's imagine a mini with PH13, I'd think it would work like this: Roll 14+ or Fail the FtF roll: Eat attack (ARM roll), never move, mine ok Roll 11-13 (and win the FtF), dodge attack and move into mine, mine set off BUT you as you would have to dodge it with PH-3 (PH10) you eat mine (ARM roll) Roll 2-10 (and win the FtF), dodge attack and move into mine, it set off and you also dodge it. But according with the FAQs you'd only move if you "pass" both rolls: Q: When declaring a Dodge in Reactive Turn, the movement of the Dodge ends in the Trigger Area of a Mine. Does this make the Mine activate? Does the declared Dodge Skill avoid the damage of the Mine? A: Yes, a Mine is activated by an Order or ARO if enemy troops is in its Trigger Area. Following the Order Expenditure Sequence (pag. 31) in the Declaration of AROs it states that if movements are declared the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement path, therefore the Dodge roll would a Face to Face Roll against the trooper that declared the Order and a Normal Roll against the Mine. In the case of failing the Normal Roll or losing the Face to Face Roll, the Dodge movement does not occur, so the Mine does not activate. So it should work like this: Roll 14+ or Fail the FtF roll: Eat attack (ARM roll), never move, mine ok Roll 11-13 (and win the FtF), Dodge the attack but "fail" the normal roll. You never move, mine doesn't set off. Roll 2-10 (and win the FtF), Dodge the attack and "win" the normal roll. You move into mine, it set off and you also dodge it. The last case is a bit weird... does this work like this?
Which is the case you are pointing? I posted a few of them and not sure which one you are refering...
Sorry, I misunderstood your first bullet points. Let me correct the correction. First case, second bullet point is wrong. In order to move at all, you need to win all Dodge comparisons, so if you succeed against the attack but fail against mine the mine won't go off - same if you fail against attack but succeed against mine. Mines have always been a bit daft like that, but they're slowly improving.
Ok, so it does work like the last 3 bullets points. If you don't win all dodge comparisons, you don't move and as you don't move the mine never set off and you never got hit by the mine in the first place... what a headache XD but good to know!
thats incorrect, if you fail against the mine it still detonates and you still take the hit. It is possible to pass vs the opponent, fail vs the mine and die to the mine hit
Right. http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...tion-follow-up/?do=findComment&comment=669561 Four outcomes: Beat mine, beat attack: No ARM rolls. Mine is removed. Beat mine, lose attack: ARM vs attack. Mine is removed. Lose mine, beat attack: ARM vs mine. Mine is removed. Lose mine, lose attack: ARM vs mine and vs attack. Mine is removed.
As per the Engage rules, there are only two possible outcomes. If the user was inside the Area of Effect of a Deployable Weapon, then successfully Engaging his enemy does not activate or set off that Deployable Weapon. ... Failing the Engage Roll also sets off enemy Deployable Weapons if the user is in their Area of Effect, forcing him to make all pertinent ARM/BTS Rolls without moving. Note that there is no 'moving into the trigger area' with Engage, as you never specify a movement path.
That's right if you are inside the mine area, but in the case I described you dodge the attack and enter in the mine trigger area with the 2 inches movement, which was the weird case. In that case a paradox is triggered because you can only move if you pass all the dodges but if you move into the area you would lose a dodge roll vs that mine. So if you try to dodge (with a PH roll that would fail vs a mine), then you dodge the original attack but your movement is negated (and for that the mine never set off). Since 2015 this interaction seems to have been changed because now it doesn't work as described in the old link (check the FAQ entry I posted above). My point was that even if the initial 2 inches would trace a path throught the trigger area of a mine it wouldn't set off in either case (because if you fail you don't move at all and if you pass you are placed directly into b2b). But it's technically correct that you never move in the first place so RAW that is a better reading.
@Daboader isnt correct.. From the FAQ: "When declaring a Dodge in Reactive Turn, the movement of the Dodge ends in the Trigger Area of a Mine. Does this make the Mine activate? Does the declared Dodge Skill avoid the damage of the Mine? Yes, a Mine is activated by an Order or ARO if enemy troops is in its Trigger Area. Following the Order Expenditure Sequence (pag. 31) in the Declaration of AROs it states that if movements are declared the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement path, therefore the Dodge roll would a Face to Face Roll against the trooper that declared the Order and a Normal Roll against the Mine. In the case of failing the Normal Roll or losing the Face to Face Roll, the Dodge movement does not occur, so the Mine does not activate."
