Engaged State and BS Attacks/Suppressive Fire State Cancelation

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by Methuselah, Apr 10, 2022.

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  1. Methuselah

    Methuselah Well-Known Member

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    Lets say reactive model R is in the suppressive fire state. If active model A declares a move and walks into base-to-base contact with reactive model R, can reactive model R ARO with:
    1. A BS attack?
    2. A BS attack with the suppressive fire mode?​
    Picture1.png

    Background:
    Engaged State has the ruling: Troopers in this State can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Idle, Reset, and Skills that specify that they can be used in Close Combat or in Engaged State. But I think it's commonly played that a model can ARO with a BS attack against a model who walks into BTB implying that the all-at-once concept applies and the model was not in BTB for a portion of the order. Suppressive Fire is canceled if the Trooper enters Engaged state. So my question is, when does the reactive model count as being in the engaged state. Is is the entire order, as soon as the active model enters BTB, during the effects portion of the order, or some other time? And does the timing impact the reactive models ability to ARO with a BS attack or a BS attack with the suppressive fire mode?

    Relevant rules:
    Suppressive Fire.png

    Engaged State.png
     
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    The All at Once principle says "Even if declared one after the other, both Skills in a single Order are performed simultaneously." We also know that Requirements are checked at Resolution, not Declaration.

    So, I'd say R can declare BS Attack. When we get to the Resolution phase and check the Requirements to determine whether R can perform the BS Attack, we see that all the Skills are performed simultaneously, meaning at any point along a movement route, so R can perform the BS Attack at the point where he's not in the Engaged state.

    It's not ideal since Engaged says you can't "declare" BS Attack, not you can't "perform" it. But the FAQs seem to have moved all the declaration checks to the Resolution phase (e.g. you can declare a BS Attack from inside smoke even though the Zero Visibility Zone rule says you can't).
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    As a small note, BS Attack has this as one of three requirements (no additional emphasis added):

    "Not be in Engaged State during the Activation phase of that Order."
     
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